Which jobs is at its prime?

[Mhaeric]

I honestly dont think that any other class (could be wrong here) has skills that actually punish you for using them.

Dark Knight has The Blackest Night which punishes you if not used correctly. Unlike MNK abilities, however, the reward is strong enough, the penalty is relatively minor, and the player skill needed to avoid the penalty is not high. It's proof that this type of risk vs. reward skill can work well. MNK skills like Tornado Kick don't check any of those boxes, however, so fail as a risk-reward concept.

[elioaiko]

I was about to go in on tanks and healers but then I read that it was for another day haha.

For DPS, BLM is at its prime. It's kit works perfectly and it being Yoshi's main definitely shows.

I'd also add DRG and SAM for most satisfied players since I used to be a SAM main. It's pretty complete and feels good. DRG friends also like where it's at so I guess no complaints?

RDM is also pretty good right now too gameplay-wise.

MNK is in a horrible state and SE still hasn't figured it out.

NIN is 50/50 with me, it's really busy but it's not too bad. Although the mudra change turned some people away.

I personally like how MCH is now because I hated the whole ammo management and everything revolving around Wildfire so much. Although some really didn't like the changes.

DNC is solid right now but it's brand new so SE might hurt it sooner or later (hopefully not though).

BRD is having an identity crisis atm since I have friends hating it because it's a mixed Ranger/Bard job. And the others because it's rDPS was given to DNC.

Like someone else said, ShB was a disappointment to a lot of jobs (specifically tanks and healers).

[VentVanitas]

Dark Knight has The Blackest Night which punishes you if not used correctly. Unlike MNK abilities, however, the reward is strong enough, the penalty is relatively minor, and the player skill needed to avoid the penalty is not high. It's proof that this type of risk vs. reward skill can work well. MNK skills like Tornado Kick don't check any of those boxes, however, so fail as a risk-reward concept.

A minor misconception but the sentiment is still met since it's a skill that takes away far too much for nothing to give. TK never really had anything to reward, it was always just a "well screw it, I'm gonna lose my stacks anyway" move.

Don't get me wrong this is just my own conjecture, I'm not arguing against you. But I think Six Sided Star is a worse offender for skills that punish you for no reason. It is supposedly a disengage tool, but it's not a backstep? Not only that, but it's a disengage that stops MNK from using its actual disconnect tool, Meditate, for almost 4 seconds. Just imagine if Elusive Jump or Hissatsu: Yaten took a whole GCD to perform, let alone 4 seconds... TK may be completely obsolete, but at least its existence wasn't dead on launch like SSS.

It's quite a shame honestly for such a cool looking move.

[gumas]

cant say for other role but for dps...

- on the spot - BLM RDM SAM

- feels good but just need a little fix somewhere - DRG

- its allright, could be better but its allright - NIN SMN

- some fix here and there needed - MCH DNC

- fix on priority one - BRD MNK

[Jirah]

My 2 cents on the matter. I haven't got to NIN, SMN or BLM sadly so I cant so much on those. But it seems BLM mains dont complain much if at all. As for the rest..

RDM- isnt awful just boring and simple, it feels like its missing somthing and with only 1 gage to keep track of, its the easiest job in the game. i dont main RDM nor do i want it to drown in clunky form like MNK or MCH but its lacking

SAM/DRG- literally cant complain about these besides small nitpicks like Mind's Eye needs minor tweaks and ...ya know getting ur AOE rotation really really late.

BRD- Bards are imo the best ranged dps in the game. the other two are lackluster compared that being said since im not talking about potency, maybe relevant support? the 1% damage up is embarrassing and wish its "shield samba" wasnt so bland might as well make it a role action if every ranged gets it. besides dancer getting a cooler animation than the poop quake MCH n BRD gets

MNK- i need to do more research on this one but MNK mains are a dedicated bunch for sticking to many job reworks and not befitting from them at all.

MCH- My main, how they massacred you. I get alot of people love new MCH considering the amount of MCH in roulette lately but its still leaves alot to be desired. it lost its AOE turret, its ammo so now they have the most barren rotation in the game with tanks like warrior and GNB beating it, its utility so no more dismantle (ranged Reprisal) no refresh (aoe Lucid dreaming) no Palisade which frankly just Heart of stone and no turret hypercharges which are like trick attacks. and a longer CD for wildfire from its old 60 second one. i can g on and on on how MCH has issues but well be here all day long story short its "functional" but very far from perfect

[SpeckledBurd]

A minor misconception but the sentiment is still met since it's a skill that takes away far too much for nothing to give. TK never really had anything to reward, it was always just a "well screw it, I'm gonna lose my stacks anyway" move.

Don't get me wrong this is just my own conjecture, I'm not arguing against you. But I think Six Sided Star is a worse offender for skills that punish you for no reason. It is supposedly a disengage tool, but it's not a backstep? Not only that, but it's a disengage that stops MNK from using its actual disconnect tool, Meditate, for almost 4 seconds. Just imagine if Elusive Jump or Hissatsu: Yaten took a whole GCD to perform, let alone 4 seconds... TK may be completely obsolete, but at least its existence wasn't dead on launch like SSS.

It's quite a shame honestly for such a cool looking move.

I think a better description for Tornado Kick would be calling it a "Noob Trap" skill. It looks cool and it has higher potency than the rest of the jobs actions so someone who doesn't know any better might try and use it.

The reality of the skill though is it's a skill the devs pretty actively don't want us to use at all at this point. We now have four skills that were designed to upkeep Greased Lightning during a down phase (Form Shift, Riddle of Earth, Anatman, 6SS) and they actively nerfed our Perfect Balance's cooldown to prevent people from using TK for damage. I've said it before but they've practically put more effort into making the skill unusable because people wanted to use it than it would have taken to change the effect to something people could use.

Six Sided Star was weird because it was redundant with a skill we already had. Sora_Oathkeeper in one of the Monk threads brought up the point that it might have been made for the edge case of Monk often needing a GL refresh on the last hit in order for Form Shift/Riddle of Earth to be sufficient, but with Anatman that just left it as being better than Meditation for short disconnects.

[wereotter]

Six Sided Star was weird because it was redundant with a skill we already had. Sora_Oathkeeper in one of the Monk threads brought up the point that it might have been made for the edge case of Monk often needing a GL refresh on the last hit in order for Form Shift/Riddle of Earth to be sufficient, but with Anatman that just left it as being better than Meditation for short disconnects.

I am of a slightly different but generally similar disposition to you here...

I do think that they made all the skills usable, but the problem is there's just too many of them. Six Sided Star, for example, is great for something like the second boss of Grand Cosmos. You have to disconnect to move the seeds, so you can't use Anatman, and since you can't use any other skills while carrying the seed, you can't use meditation or form shift during that down time. Anatman or Form Shift, however, are the tools to use in the down phase for Engels in the Coped Factory, and Tornado Kick is the right skill before that crazy long cutscene in E8.

BUT the fact that they keep having to spend creative resources and job skills to add more tools to maintain greased lighting is the real thing holding the job back from evolving. So to me, the solution (as I stated in another thread) is to completely change some of our lower level skills to make greased lightning act more like blood of the dragon and enochian. Move Perfect Balance to level 54 and just have it be a 30 second cooldown that gives you max greased lightning stacks. Then you can remove tornado kick, six sided star, and anatman. You can also remove the greased lightning refresh from riddle of earth and form shift, and use those opened up skill slots for new tools that will actually let monk become more than it has been for the past 7 years.

[Eliadil]

MCH- My main, how they massacred you. I get alot of people love new MCH considering the amount of MCH in roulette lately but its still leaves alot to be desired. it lost its AOE turret, its ammo so now they have the most barren rotation in the game with tanks like warrior and GNB beating it, its utility so no more dismantle (ranged Reprisal) no refresh (aoe Lucid dreaming) no Palisade which frankly just Heart of stone and no turret hypercharges which are like trick attacks. and a longer CD for wildfire from its old 60 second one. i can g on and on on how MCH has issues but well be here all day long story short its "functional" but very far from perfect

That's pretty much how everybody who played in SB perceive its own "main" job in Shadowbringers I think. I loved the Stormblood Samurai rotation, which was flexible and perfect, and I hated how they ruined it for a fixed "one minute burst" rotation which feels awfull to play in high level content. Monks are unhappy about their job. SMN are unhappy about their job. NIN mains are unhappy about the rework or their job since ShB. BRD are unhappy about their job. RDMs are unhappy too... In the end, everybody who took the time to master a job in stormblood is left unhappy about the changes.

I mean, who isn't except DRG and BLM ? Nobody.
That's a shame, but we'll have to endure 'till 6.0

[Katie_Kitty]

It's a sad commentary on job balance when a job that has consistently been the worst one in its role and which has been consistently been overshadowed in both DPS and utility by every other job in its role has a whole thread of people declaring it is "in a good spot right now" while remaining completely overshadowed in every way by the other jobs in its role.

I'll be the first to admit that RDM is better arguably than it may have ever been in relation to the other jobs as a whole. But is that really saying anything? Wow, it actually beats Dragoon right now. It's not the worst job in the game. Congratulations to us I guess, it seems that's all it takes to make us happy.

Here are the facts: There's no good reason to bring a RDM over a SMN or a BLM. I mean technically there's no good reason to bring a BLM over a SMN either but at least BLM can compete in DPS and therefore has a spot in a double-caster composition. But Red Mage? It can't compete in DPS against similarly-skilled SMNs and BLMs. Do you want a raise? Well Summoner's got you covered just fine. Why bring RDM?

Don't trick yourself into thinking caster balance is anything but a joke right now. Summoner is king. BLM has a spot in raids right now only because it's good enough to earn a spot in a double-caster comp. That's all fine and good, but it leaves Red Mage without anything to hang its hat on. There is still more work to be done before RDM can really be said to be "in a good spot right now."

Personally, I'd like to see Summoner lose its raise. More damage would also be welcome, but I don't particularly believe that an arms race is necessarily the answer to every question. Allowing RDM to serve as the only DPS with a raise is also an acceptable way to balance the role in my opinion.

[ZechinOmeda]

Tanks are by far a disappointment in ShB. They are at their prime. Aggro is 100% easier than before. No more struggling. defence cooldowns are better and tanks take less damage overall. Better skills, both single target and aoe. All tanks are much better now than they ever were. SE has done a great job balancing them.
Now, as for healers, they are the most unbalanced role. Ranged dps need help as their damage does not compare to casters or melee, but healers were killed off to the point all you see is whm. Like, where is sch and ast? If not raiding, then they don't matter. Whm is the only healer you need