Healers who rescue pull tanks into mobs.

[Goji1639]

Because ever since reaching level 50, big pulls have been the rule, and small pulls have been the exception.

Then why does the game let anyone pull small after 50? Rules are meaningless if they're not enforced.

[TheRealQuah]

Using Rescue to force the tank to pull at the pace you want isn't it's intended use, and is every bit as exploitative as choosing not to save someone that ran ahead of you and pulled a bunch of crap.

If I was pulling slow and you vote kicked me i would actually have no problem with that. Sometimes people's play-styles just don't mesh, and to vote kick the majority has to sign off. Deciding you don't want to play with me, and deciding you want to force me to play a specific way by exploiting a poorly designed skill, are 2 different things.

I'm really not sure why you people are so dead set against simply asking for big pulls at the beginning of the run, though.

Using rescue to pull more mobs isn't exploitative. It's not in the ToS that only tanks can pull mobs. Disrupting others play through deliberately letting them die though is against the ToS though.

Your second sentence shows your lack of self awareness. YOU are forcing people to play a specific way by pulling small. Yes it's a stalemate, but what you are actually preaching is the same as what you're complaining about.

People shouldn't have to ask for big pulls, they should be standard. And they shouldn't be called "big pulls" they should be called "pulls" and anything less is "baby pulls"

[Awha]

Then why does the game let anyone pull small after 50? Rules are meaningless if they're not enforced.

More so it is a community rule. You are free to pull whatever size you please, but do not expect people to always kindly wait. Just like people should not expect tanks to sit back and kindly take being dragged around. This is why I say people should just use the vote kick feature more often, remove the element for whatever reason that does not mesh with the overall desire of the group. It is a waste of time in the end imo to even try to communicate since someone in the end will be forced into a situation that they do not want to be in. So either kick the person or leave the group should be the standard when it comes to being placed in a group where ones play style does not mesh.

Things get petty when people try to force others to do something they do not wish to do, though I do get why people do as such but seems silly.

[Goji1639]

Using rescue to pull more mobs isn't exploitative. It's not in the ToS that only tanks can pull mobs. Disrupting others play through deliberately letting them die though is against the ToS though.

Your second sentence shows your lack of self awareness. YOU are forcing people to play a specific way by pulling small. Yes it's a stalemate, but what you are actually preaching is the same as what you're complaining about.

People shouldn't have to ask for big pulls, they should be standard. And they shouldn't be called "big pulls" they should be called "pulls" and anything less is "baby pulls"

Using Rescue on players for reasons other than rescuing them is exploitative. The abilities intent is pretty obvious, and you're misusing it intentionally to disrupt another persons play. I'm guessing I'd have an easier time reporting that then you would have reporting me for failing to save you when you ran off ahead of me and aggro'd a bunch of stuff. Believe whatever you want, though. People like you can Rescue pull and people like me will let you die. The difference is that you're the one that initiated the conflict; I'm simply responding.

If people have a specific playstyle expectation, and won't tolerate anything else, they should always at least ask. Otherwise you get what you get.

More so it is a community rule. You are free to pull whatever size you please, but do not expect people to always kindly wait. Just like people should not expect tanks to sit back and kindly take being dragged around. This is why I say people should just use the vote kick feature more often, remove the element for whatever reason that does not mesh with the overall desire of the group. It is a waste of time in the end imo to even try to communicate since someone in the end will be forced into a situation that they do not want to be in. So either kick the person or leave the group should be the standard when it comes to being placed in a group where ones play style does not mesh.

Things get petty when people try to force others to do something they do not wish to do, though I do get why people do as such but seems silly.

Here's how it should go down.

If at the beginning of a run anyone cares about the size of the pulls they should speak up; otherwise the tank is going to do what hes comfortable with. If the Healer wants big pulls and the Tank doesn't then you're at an impasse. At that point the group votes on it, either in chat or through vote kick, and majority wins. Very simple. In instances where the healer decides to be disrespectful and obnoxious, however, I don't feel like anyone is honor bound to treat him kindly. I see nothing wrong with simply letting him die and then working it out from there.

[ReiMakoto]

Using Rescue on players for reasons other than rescuing them is exploitative. The abilities intent is pretty obvious, and you're misusing it intentionally to disrupt another persons play. I'm guessing I'd have an easier time reporting that then you would have reporting me for failing to save you when you ran off ahead of me and aggro'd a bunch of stuff. Believe whatever you want, though. People like you can Rescue pull and people like me will let you die. The difference is that you're the one that initiated the conflict; I'm simply responding.

If people have a specific playstyle expectation, and won't tolerate anything else, they should always at least ask. Otherwise you get what you get.


Here's how it should go down.

If at the beginning of a run anyone cares about the size of the pulls they should speak up; otherwise the tank is going to do what hes comfortable with. If the Healer wants big pulls and the Tank doesn't then you're at an impasse. At that point the group votes on it, either in chat or through vote kick, and majority wins. Very simple. In instances where the healer decides to be disrespectful and obnoxious, however, I don't feel like anyone is honor bound to treat him kindly. I see nothing wrong with simply letting him die and then working it out from there.

With the way the game is designed, if one does not even attempt a large pull then they are simply just bad at the game and should try to improve. The absolute worst that can happen on a big pull is that you wipe, and next time you know to pull less. This is why "large pulls" are the standard and why the onus should not be on the party to ask for a big pull, logically they should be the baseline and you tone downwards. The game is desinged in such a way to heavily reward fighting the most amount of enemies possible, and the actual tanking/healing load in any one dungeon is so low that even at min ilvl healers spend more time dpsing than healing. Again the worst that can happen on a large pull is you die and brush it off and try again, maybe smaller this time, if you dont die, great the whole run is going to be quicker, if you do die, boo that sucks, but you'll be in for a long one anyway with small pulls so that death doesn't add much time. Unless it somehow hurts your pride that you've died in a dungeon, or you fear social repurcusions, don't worry, this is a Great Community BTW, the amount of grief youd get is minimum if you at least put the effort in, because thats what small pulls are, not putting in any effort. And if your pride is truly hurt by the idea of dying, try re-evaulating your priorities.

[Frosthaven]

Better communication is definitely never a bad answer!

[Darkobra]

I can't believe you're ending our lifelong friendship over this. This can't be happening!!

I'd tell you you'd get over it but you can't even get over someone using Rescue on you on a dungeon that one time. Lifelong to you is a blink to me. You're a puppy yapping at a big dog's heels. If you can't keep up, shut up. Don't get into a duty finder with randoms if you're still in training and expect preferential treatment. Not everyone is going to suffer you pulling one monster at a time because you can't figure out how to play a tank and "Oh no! Someone made me move! I have suddenly forgot how to use my skills!"

FF14 is the most casual of MMOs and you have somehow turned it into a chore. No wonder gaming's becoming more cutscenes than involvement.

Next up: Netflix does gaming with Black Mirror... Oh. Damn, that show DOES imitate real life.

[Goji1639]

With the way the game is designed, if one does not even attempt a large pull then they are simply just bad at the game and should try to improve. The absolute worst that can happen on a big pull is that you wipe, and next time you know to pull less. This is why "large pulls" are the standard and why the onus should not be on the party to ask for a big pull, logically they should be the baseline and you tone downwards. The game is desinged in such a way to heavily reward fighting the most amount of enemies possible, and the actual tanking/healing load in any one dungeon is so low that even at min ilvl healers spend more time dpsing than healing. Again the worst that can happen on a large pull is you die and brush it off and try again, maybe smaller this time, if you dont die, great the whole run is going to be quicker, if you do die, boo that sucks, but you'll be in for a long one anyway with small pulls so that death doesn't add much time. Unless it somehow hurts your pride that you've died in a dungeon, or you fear social repurcusions, don't worry, this is a Great Community BTW, the amount of grief youd get is minimum if you at least put the effort in, because thats what small pulls are, not putting in any effort. And if your pride is truly hurt by the idea of dying, try re-evaulating your priorities.

It's impressive how much effort you all put into being completely socially inept.

If you walk into a situation where you're working with a bunch of strangers and you want things done a certain way, you ask. You don't just walk in expecting things are going to happen the way you want them to, and start yanking people around if they don't. It's almost impressive that I have to explain this.

As for this being a great community... eh. I've played a lot of MMO's and I wouldn't say this is one of the better ones community wise. It is a great game, though.

I'd tell you you'd get over it but you can't even get over someone using Rescue on you on a dungeon that one time. Lifelong to you is a blink to me. You're a puppy yapping at a big dog's heels. If you can't keep up, shut up. Don't get into a duty finder with randoms if you're still in training and expect preferential treatment. Not everyone is going to suffer you pulling one monster at a time because you can't figure out how to play a tank and "Oh no! Someone made me move! I have suddenly forgot how to use my skills!"

FF14 is the most casual of MMOs and you have somehow turned it into a chore. No wonder gaming's becoming more cutscenes than involvement.

Next up: Netflix does gaming with Black Mirror... Oh. Damn, that show DOES imitate real life.

You sound angry; I'm starting to think I may have truly jeopardized our friendship. If we're not best friends anymore then are we at least still really really good friends?

[Shalan]

It's impressive how much effort you all put into being completely socially inept.

If you walk into a situation where you're working with a bunch of strangers and you want things done a certain way, you ask. You don't just walk in expecting things are going to happen the way you want them to, and start yanking people around if they don't. It's almost impressive that I have to explain this.

As for this being a great community... eh. I've played a lot of MMO's and I wouldn't say this is one of the better ones community wise. It is a great game, though.

No, when you're working with a bunch of strangers and there's a generally accepted means of doing something (pulling in larger groups) that the vast majority abide by to the point that it's considered the standard, the onus is on YOU to ask for smaller pulls first. State that you're under geared, you're new, you're uncomfortable, whatever excuse you want at the start because you're the one who will be going against the grain.

From the point that the majority of DPS get their AoEs the standard has been multigroup pulls for years, across expansions and dungeons. You're the one who should be asking for smaller pulls, and if you're not doing them without any rhyme nor reason I can understand the healers pulling you. It's still rude that they are doing so, but you're being inconsiderate as well.

[ReiMakoto]

It's impressive how much effort you all put into being completely socially inept.

If you walk into a situation where you're working with a bunch of strangers and you want things done a certain way, you ask. You don't just walk in expecting things are going to happen the way you want them to, and start yanking people around if they don't. It's almost impressive that I have to explain this.

As for this being a great community... eh. I've played a lot of MMO's and I wouldn't say this is one of the better ones.

I believe i explained why the strangers youre with expect you to behave a certain way, as it is the most logical an beneficial in the vast majority of cases. Except you ignored that part. If there is a general way something is done and you want to do it differently then the onus is on you to communicate not the other way around, expecting everyone to declare their intentions is unreasonable especially as explained (which you ignored) it makes the most sense to do it one way over another.