Male Viera as a playable character! show your support

[SassyAssassin]

Just here again to show my support for the hunky aura men with bunny ears PLEASE!!!!!!!

[JohnSpawnVFX]

You can't go and play Persona 4 Golden for a couple of days without the Male Viera obsessed crowd go calling people x-phobic again...

[MirronTulaxia]

Actually, the lore itself is stopping people from CURRENTLY playing Male viera. Or rather, it should considering they're never seen and definitely not outside the forest. For RP, claiming that hiding behind the lore as a derogatory statement is utterly hilarious to me. Rp is meant to abide by the world's lore. That's how it works. Now if SE adds them and a reason for them to leave? Sure, by all means have at it. But right now, there's no reason, RP wise, that a Male viera should be standing in the middle of Ul'Dah and dancing like a stripper.

As, again, they don’t die the second they leave you can come up with any number of explanations for why that happened. Female Viera were rare, until they weren’t. Male Miqo’te were rare, and now they aren’t. Acting like lore is an unchanging monolith is silly. All it means is what do you need to answer.

[Schwarzwind]

Actually, the lore itself is stopping people from CURRENTLY playing Male viera. Or rather, it should considering they're never seen and definitely not outside the forest. For RP, claiming that hiding behind the lore as a derogatory statement is utterly hilarious to me. Rp is meant to abide by the world's lore. That's how it works. Now if SE adds them and a reason for them to leave? Sure, by all means have at it. But right now, there's no reason, RP wise, that a Male viera should be standing in the middle of Ul'Dah and dancing like a stripper.

Female Viera are already leaving their forest and breaking with their traditions. So why can't male Viera do the same?

[Arngrim_Greyashe]

As, again, they don’t die the second they leave you can come up with any number of explanations for why that happened. Female Viera were rare, until they weren’t. Male Miqo’te were rare, and now they aren’t. Acting like lore is an unchanging monolith is silly. All it means is what do you need to answer.

Except that goes into non canon. If you choose to RP as a Male viera, right now, it's not valid. There's no lore leading anyone to believe they've left. You're likely to be ignored in large by the RP community.

Female Viera are already leaving their forest and breaking with their traditions. So why can't male Viera do the same?

Until SE adds them, they're not leaving the forest. That's my point. In the lore presented, they haven't left. If SE changes that to include them, then that's fine and completely valid. Until then, they're not valid in RP by lore abiding players.

[Theodric]

It's entirely possible that they'll never be added to the game as a playable option, so until they are it seems counterproductive to play as one. Especially since the attempts to portray one through current limitations end up looking rather strange and/or goofy. The Gold Saucer bunny ears, for instance, don't really do a great job at reflecting a proud and fierce defender of the forest.

It also makes me question how many people here actually want male viera because they're interested in their lore and what they bring to the table and not just because they desperately want to play as a guy with bunny ears.

As for why male viera aren't leaving their forest and haven't been seen outside of it so far, it would appear that they're more competent and driven when it comes to upholding their people's traditions. If they do leave their forest at a later date, then hopefully the reasoning is fleshed out and plausible.

[Arngrim_Greyashe]

It's entirely possible that they'll never be added to the game as a playable option, so until they are it seems counterproductive to play as one. Especially since the attempts to portray one through current limitations end up looking rather strange and/or goofy. The Gold Saucer bunny ears, for instance, don't really do a great job at reflecting a proud and fierce defender of the forest.

It also makes me question how many people here actually want male viera because they're interested in their lore and what they bring to the table and not just because they desperately want to play as a guy with bunny ears.

As for why male viera aren't leaving their forest and haven't been seen outside of it so far, it would appear that they're more competent and driven when it comes to upholding their people's traditions. If they do leave their forest at a later date, then hopefully the reasoning is fleshed out and plausible.

All of this. ^^^^

[Melichoir]

It's entirely possible that they'll never be added to the game as a playable option, so until they are it seems counterproductive to play as one. Especially since the attempts to portray one through current limitations end up looking rather strange and/or goofy. The Gold Saucer bunny ears, for instance, don't really do a great job at reflecting a proud and fierce defender of the forest.

It also makes me question how many people here actually want male viera because they're interested in their lore and what they bring to the table and not just because they desperately want to play as a guy with bunny ears.

As for why male viera aren't leaving their forest and haven't been seen outside of it so far, it would appear that they're more competent and driven when it comes to upholding their people's traditions. If they do leave their forest at a later date, then hopefully the reasoning is fleshed out and plausible.

The Lore reasons are garbage and are a throwback to a game which had good world building that allowed the lore to work within the framework of that game. It doesnt work within FFXIV.

Ok, now that I was as blunt and over simplified as possible and got that out of the way, the lore reasoning within FFXIV never actually made sense to keep it consistent with 12 in regards to why you dont see male Viera. You get a few issues with it that simply dont work for the game. Beyond the basic desires of people wanting to be male bunny boys (which is valid a reasoning as any) and that Male Miqote had some similarities to Male Viera in regards to have prevelant theyre supposed to be (compared to how many cat boys you actually see, despite lore), the lore has in game inconsistencies that do not make sense. For example, while on the Source, its plausible that you wont see male Viera cause they are literally hanging out defending the forests and what not and there are conflict issues with the Garlean empire, it is implausible that you would not see a single one at all when you have so many female viera choosing to leave the forests. Granted, different culture values between the sexes may apply, but that assumes that 100% of all male veira's adhere to it. That there is absolutely no free thinking or self interested male viera who says "Nah I want to see the world," or "You know, itd be better for all of us if I went to see the world and get help, learn new things, possibly bolster our chances at victory". Now I know the meme of 'realism in video games' and how we got potato people, talking dragons, and etc, yet I would draw the line at male viera not being present, but the big difference is agency of characters. This issue is world breaking because it assumes 100% compliance, and therefore no agency or free thinking among a specific sex of people when everyone else in the entire game, beast and man alike, demonstrate free thinking and self interest. It is a pure outlier compared to how everyone else who can think for themselves behave. In a single player RPG where you can have more mystery and vague areas of the world, it works. In MMOs, not so much.

The second problem ends up being Norverandt existing. Norvrandt clearly shows that cultures differ between the source and Norvrandt. Miqote, Lalafells, Elezen, Hyurs (kinda?), etc all behave differently on Norvrandt compared to their counterpart on the source. There rae straight up cultural differences....Except Viera. They embody supposedly the same culture and belief structure as the Source. Males hide, Females go places, both have a connection to the forest. Now I know why you might want to do that for Norvrandt simply because of throwbacks to 12, but it highlights that the Viera Lore as a whole does not work within the framework of FFXIV. Much like above with self determination, you get factors that makes it incredibly unusual to not see Male Viera on Norvrandt. The world is literally on the brink of destruction, the Viera people only have 1 real settlement left, and those supposed protectors leave the protection of that settlement to the females only. How does this make sense in any form of reasoning? Who are the male viera actually protecting if the first encounter with Viera in the forest is with Females from Fanow? If when you go to Fanow, the only defense line there is female Viera. That there isnt much of the world left and the goal is to adhere to such stringent philosophy of separating the sexes and having the males hang out in the woods. Like anyone with half a brain is gonna say "You know, this plan doesnt make sense." It either implies Viera are incredibly dense and locked by tradition, or that the males on Norvrandt have no agency and will, without a moments thought, adhere to tradition and stay 100% hidden even if interlopers have entered the woods.

The lore is doesnt work in FFXIV. To make a final point about that, the above can be remedied with 1 line of dialogue - "Desparate times requires the Viera to change or die out." If one line of dialogue can instantly explain why male viera can now 'come out of hiding', then the lore was flimsy to begin with. Ive never been on board with the lore reasoning for why we dont have male Viera. Besides development reasons, it was kept in game cause "Dont you remember how the Viera in this other FFXIV game were!" Its all about nostalgia and wink wink nudge nudge stuff, not actual world building that fits into FFXIV as a game.

[Arngrim_Greyashe]

The Lore reasons are garbage

You've missed the entirety of my point. I didn't say they couldn't or shouldn't add them. I'm saying that CURRENTLY ROLEPLAYING AS A MALE VIERA isn't lore abiding, because they have YET to leave the forest. My point has nothing to do with whether they should be added or not.

[Theodric]

It doesn't really matter if the lore reasoning is 'garbage' at this point in time. If they're not a playable option then they're not a playable option. I'm not against the inclusion of male viera so long as they are handled well - but that's a key point. I want them to look good and I want them to have a plausible lore reason for leaving their homeland. I also want them to have a fleshed out background and not simply feel tacked on just for the sake of having them there.