Healers who rescue pull tanks into mobs.

[Arillyn]

I think everyone should really level a tank, a healer and a dps - just to see how those three roles play and see things from a different perspective.

A good tank is watching what is going on and will often determine the rate of pulling based on what they see. Watching to see if the healer is keeping up well with heals, or if they are struggling. How quickly is the dps downing the mobs. The tank may or may not be familiar with the dungeon. Also, the tank may be very comfortable with their ability at crowd control, but they may not be comfortable either. (Also a good tank doesn't point mobs at the dps or healer and they also don't play spin the mob.)

A good healer is watching what is going on with the party. And (imo) will keep everyone's health up and on downtime do some dps when it's safe to do so. They'll let the tank know that they can handle big pulls if the tank is willing. They run a stray mob that is hitting them to the tank so the tank can more easily pick it up. They don't yoink the tank into more mobs.

A good dps will watch what is going on around them and with the party. They will down the mobs as fast as they can using aoe abilities on large pulls. If they are ranged and pull hate of some mob, they run to the tank so the tank can more easily pull it off. If the healer is getting pegged by a mob, then down that mob fast so it doesn't take out the healer. Don't run ahead and pull more mobs intentionally because you think the pace is too slow (say something in chat that we can take more).

Having played all three roles I have a better understanding of each and what they entail. I also know what annoys me as a tank, a healer and a dps and I try not to do those things to others because... they are annoying.

[Goji1639]

Letting the healer die certainly isn't the "bigger man; better person" way to handle it, but I also don't feel like it's necessarily out of bounds. The healer cast the first stone, threw down the gauntlet, etc. and I don't feel like anyone is ethically obligated to turn the other cheek in response.

[Avidria]

Yeah that's a fair point too...

Yeah and I mean, it's not a personal thing either haha

I've just done thousands of dungeons across a lot of different MMOs and my experiences have been uh... very, very mixed. Queueing up with a full group of strangers is a blindfolded grab bag and I tend to treat it like one.

[EaMett]

?? You couldn't have thought that was clever. It already exists. Its called "not hitting the raise button" lol.

It was sarcasm. You can't, realistically, leave someone dead without penalizing the rest of the party. It's just not an option unless it seriously impeeds in your ability to keep said party alive (aka running oom). So yeah, I kinda thought it was.

Then we get back to our original predicament: Can enmity just toggle off for tanks when they get pulled into the next trash mobs against their will by some impatient healer?

Also for how much this forum loves to preach how 80% of the playerbase can't even play their classes correctly, it surely seems hypocritical to expect tanks to play "high level" we sadly can't have both worlds even tho I wish we have the later more often for all types of players.

Tanks don't have to do anything. There's nothing high level here. Tanking 2 mobs or tanking 100 is exactly the same process for the tank. You do your aoe rotation, you do your mitigation rotation. That's it. The only difference is going to be the number of AoEs you need to step out of. It's the healer that needs to play higher level. Like I said earlier, the healer should dictate the pace. If they judge they can heal you with more mobs, you take more mobs. And to be clear, I'm not condoning pulling your tank into packs. The healer should just ask the tank to pull larger instead or bring mobs to them. But in the event it happens it's not something worth getting upset about. Certainly not enough to take the time to complain over it on the forums and ask for the skill to be removed.

[Shalan]

Letting the healer die certainly isn't the "bigger man; better person" way to handle it, but I also don't feel like it's necessarily out of bounds. The healer cast the first stone, threw down the gauntlet, etc. and I don't feel like anyone is ethically obligated to turn the other cheek in response.

> The healer was rude to me and pulled me ahead when I didn't want to pull more
> Better escalate by killing the healer, and likely cause a wipe and burden the DPS with our spat as well

Yeah, that'll show em.
Acting like a reasonable adult and simply talking it out after the mobs are dead is overrated when you can act like a petulant child.


Don't escalate, if the healer is being rude and pulling you into things outside your comfort zone just talk to them

[Goji1639]

But in the event it happens it's not something worth getting upset about. Certainly not enough to take the time to complain over it on the forums and ask for the skill to be removed.

I'm thinking a toggle would be more appropriate.

Even beyond the obvious tank trolling implications I just don't like the ability. Even when it's done with good intentions, being yanked away from what I'm trying to do annoys me. Never mind that most of the time Rescue is used incorrectly, even if I'm in an AoE it's because I've decided that maintaining my rotation is more important than moving. Hell, if I miscalculate, die and you decide not to res me that's completely fair imo; I'd have no objections. Someone yanking me across the field because they decided they're going to take control of my priorities is just grating, though.

Rescue rubs me the wrong way in general. LET ME turn it off.

> The healer was rude to me and pulled me ahead when I didn't want to pull more
> Better escalate by killing the healer, and likely cause a wipe and burden the DPS with our spat as well

Yeah, that'll show em.
Acting like a reasonable adult and simply talking it out after the mobs are dead is overrated when you can act like a petulant child.


Don't escalate, if the healer is being rude and pulling you into things outside your comfort zone just talk to them

If I don't think I can handle the pull without the healer I probably won't let him die. This is where I prefer my Paladin, though, because in a pinch I can replace the healer with Clemency.

Besides, I'm sure the healer would probably prefer a little taste of his own medicine to being reported. If Rescue pulling stops working out exactly how the healer wants it to then he may eventually stop doing it.

[Morningstar1337]

It's there because players DON'T move out of their own at times hence why it is a situational ability that is rather useful if used properly. I have several healers to thank for pulling me out of my own stupidity or when I don't understand mechanics. (Not sure what my "lacking" attitude has to do with any of this)

"Only times I've seen it is for troll purposes..." good lord. Many of you sure have pure bad luck if this is your constant in dungeons.

Plus there are AoEs that cover most of the arena and players sometimes being unable to get to the safe spot due to being too slow or doding other AoEs (why yes, Eden's Pure Beams do stand out, why do you ask?:P)

[TyrTry]

I'm thinking a toggle would be more appropriate.

If I don't think I can handle the pull without the healer I probably won't let him die. This is where I prefer my Paladin, though, because in a pinch I can replace the healer with Clemency.

Besides, I'm sure the healer would probably prefer a little taste of his own medicine to being reported. If Rescue pulling stops working out exactly how the healer wants it to then he may eventually stop doing it.

Or he may end up reporting you. Fighting fire with fire will just end up making a bigger inferno. Instead of talking about the situation, you instead to go with the "entitled child" approach. You aren't creating any kind of solution to the problem; you're just escalating it.

[Lium]

This whole thread actually did remind me of the one time Rescue annoyed me. I was playing as BLM and it was during the first trash pull in Anamnesis Anyder on Bismarck’s back.

I never moved from where you first zone in because I can still cast from back there. I wasn’t taking any damage, didn’t have to worry about AoEs or anything. A BLM’s dream come true!

And the healer freaking rescued me to the rest of the group. That was annoying because like I said, I wasn’t taking any damage and was burning down all the mobs. In that case there was no reason for it. But that’s the only time I found it kind of trollish.

[Goji1639]

Or he may end up reporting you. Fighting fire with fire will just end up making a bigger inferno. Instead of talking about the situation, you instead to go with the "entitled child" approach. You aren't creating any kind of solution to the problem; you're just escalating it.

I understand what you're saying. What I'm saying isn't necessarily what the "right" thing to do is.

For instance, say someone walks up to you and punches you in the face. Asking why he did that and attempting to talk it out is the mature way to handle it; I'm just saying I wouldn't fault you for punching him back, even if it makes the situation worse. He started a fight with you, and I'm not one of those people who believes retaliating makes you "just as bad as he is." Retaliating is a natural response to being provoked.