It Would be Nice If Duty Mechanics are Explained by In-Game Tool-tips

[SamRF]

People seem to think that talking to their party and asking them what went wrong is taboo or something. I don't want the game to start holding people's hands. It's really not that difficult to see a mechanic a few times and figure it out, in normal content. If you're having difficulty, ask your party members. They're a resource for you right there in the moment. If it's new content, everyone is in the same boat of not knowing so there's trial and error. It seems like this player base is just asking for handouts more and more instead of actually willing to work for the rewards or willing to plan ahead with a party.

I can guarantee you that if, at the beginning of a dungeon, you tell the group you're new and ask for pointers that they'll offer it.

TLDR: No need to change anything. Just try to learn mechanics and utilize the party that's there with you. There's a well of knowledge there to utilize if you're having difficulty.

This works for dungeons but not really for (normal) trials and raids. Those have too much mechanics for it all to be explained in text and require more trial and error for them to be learnt. DF parties are also never patient enough to explain, understandably so since there's little use to it, except for 1 very important mechanic perhaps.

[MsQi]

People seem to think that talking to their party and asking them what went wrong is taboo or something. I don't want the game to start holding people's hands. It's really not that difficult to see a mechanic a few times and figure it out, in normal content. If you're having difficulty, ask your party members. They're a resource for you right there in the moment. If it's new content, everyone is in the same boat of not knowing so there's trial and error. It seems like this player base is just asking for handouts more and more instead of actually willing to work for the rewards or willing to plan ahead with a party.

I can guarantee you that if, at the beginning of a dungeon, you tell the group you're new and ask for pointers that they'll offer it.

TLDR: No need to change anything. Just try to learn mechanics and utilize the party that's there with you. There's a well of knowledge there to utilize if you're having difficulty.

so many people not even trying to have any sympathy. The reason a lot of people don't ask is the people who assume they are idiots or lord it over them if they don't get it. ^

[Mansion]

This works for dungeons but not really for (normal) trials and raids. Those have too much mechanics for it all to be explained in text .

Do they? There's usually one big mechanic (the moon colours in the OP post for instance), and everything else is just something we already know with perhaps a different coat of painting. Besides, trial and error is rarely so detrimental for the whole team once the fight has been around for long enough. I can't think of a trial that can't just be carried with fewer party members.
The game makes it obvious enough when there is someone's first time in that instance, people can adapt and write up that one mechanic that might have caused a wipe.

I'm all for people trying to communicate better and just... try harder again rather than having everything dumbed down over and over again.

[SamRF]

Do they? There's usually one big mechanic (the moon colours in the OP post for instance), and everything else is just something we already know with perhaps a different coat of painting. Besides, trial and error is rarely so detrimental for the whole team once the fight has been around for long enough. I can't think of a trial that can't just be carried with fewer party members.
The game makes it obvious enough when there is someone's first time in that instance, people can adapt and write up that one mechanic that might have caused a wipe.

I'm all for people trying to communicate better and just... try harder again rather than having everything dumbed down over and over again.

Don't straw man me into making it look like I want content to be dumbed down, on the other hand I proposed ideas to make normal content more complex than ever before. Not that I expect you to have read the whole thread of course but read my previous posts if you want to understand my position better.

[PyurBlue]

Vuln up and instant KO share the stupid trait of making "healing" irrelevant, and are the source of the problems regarding healer jobs.

That's sort of what I was saying about vuln ups. If one mechanic gives a vuln, that's fairly survivable. If everything gives a vuln up, there is very little chance for someone new to the content to survive.

In either case though vuln is better than instant death from a healer stand point, if we're considering healer relevance. A player with vuln that manages to live will need more healing or attention to survive raidwide damage. A good player can strategically eat vulns for DPS gains and live, doing this does increase the work for the healer. You're less likely to see a new comer doing this though.

These fights are specifically designed that way; you are meant to fumble around and die a few times until you learn.

It is the only way these fights maintain any semblance of challenge for newcomers. If it told you exactly how to handle a mechanic, what would be the point of designing the mechanic?

At the same time this creates a situation where a new comer spends the encounter dead while the rest of the party that has memorized everything plows through the fight. That's not fun.

Mechanics can be designed so that players know what to do, but not the best way to execute them. You can clearly see this in savage fights. Players go in having watched guides, so they know how to do a mechanic, but that doesn't mean that they can do them perfectly. Casual content could be built around a similar idea, where the player knows what is supposed to be done, but not the best way to do it.

Assuming that players know how to handle a mechanic before entering a fight and removing instant wipe penalties would also allow for more variations of a given mechanic to be used. In other words, a mechanic might change slightly every time you queue for a duty, and you'd have to figure out the optimum on the fly. Personally I like the idea of feeling the slight tension of a first time run no matter how many times you queue for something. It would really help break up the monotony of doing something hundreds or thousands of times and would help to keep new and veteran players closer in terms of experience.

[Arngrim_Greyashe]

so many people not even trying to have any sympathy. The reason a lot of people don't ask is the people who assume they are idiots or lord it over them if they don't get it. ^

You're right, I don't have sympathy for people who want their hand held instead of trying to figure it out for themselves. Maybe I grew up gaming that way and that's how I learned so I assume others to do the same? I don't know, but what I do know is that there's plenty of outlets for knowledge on normal tier content. There's no reason to sit in self pity about it instead of picking yourself back up and trying again. Ask for help. I know SamRF said it's not viable in normal content, but that's false. I've been in plenty of parties with new people and I appreciate when they let me know they're new, so I can help.

[iilan]

I literally pulled A12 for the first time today, told them I was new, and they waited while typing out a brief but informative overview, enough that I got in my gate and didn't stack poorly and everything. In my experience, while there are jerks who don't like helping new folks in this game, there are far more folks who just want everyone to have fun and get through things. They'd rather teach you the strat than have to pick up your slack because you're tanking the floor.

[Awha]

so many people not even trying to have any sympathy. The reason a lot of people don't ask is the people who assume they are idiots or lord it over them if they don't get it. ^

If people have time to ask in chat, they have time to go to YouTube and watch a video explaining the fight.

Granted this is different for prog, or listed blind runs.

[Seraphor]

The thing a lot of people don't seem to be appreciating, is that at one point all of these fights were brand new, and everyone went in blind, and figured it out via trial and error, and that was great.
While it may not be ideal now that the content is old and not everyone is willing to wait for newbies to get up to speed, it was well suited for the time it was new, and they're not going to go back and change those mechanics now.

Also, it cannot and should not be a case of Casual vs. Hardcore.
It's a hierarchy, of easy, a bit harder, a bit harder again, etc. so that you can learn and progress incrementally until you reach the top or however far you're content with.
Dungeons > Trials > Raids > Extreme Trials > Savage Raids> Ultimate

At some point along that ladder you're going to fall out of your comfort zone and meet some mechanic you don't get right away, and that's a good thing because it's a new challenge.

[Arngrim_Greyashe]

I literally pulled A12 for the first time today, told them I was new, and they waited while typing out a brief but informative overview, enough that I got in my gate and didn't stack poorly and everything. In my experience, while there are jerks who don't like helping new folks in this game, there are far more folks who just want everyone to have fun and get through things. They'd rather teach you the strat than have to pick up your slack because you're tanking the floor.

An excellent point made! I would much rather have a new person tell the group so we can assist rather than both sides get frustrated, one from a party member tanking the floor, and the other from failing mechanics and getting down on themselves.

To add to my last post by MsQi, I don't lord knowledge over people nor do I immediately assume they're stupid. I prefer to help first but they have to let us know they're new. Otherwise I couldn't possibly know their situation. Stop assuming everyone is bad.