Why people still USE ACT knowing their breaking TOS ??

[Canadane]

Once again, an entire thread as solid proof as to why we don't need parses.

[puts up REEEE shield]

Nah if anything it's proof we do need them.
Players don't want to be told they're underperforming, very few people want to hear that. So, let them see it for themselves.
They'll either work to improve or ...they won't. But now you don't need legal grey areas to explain what's going on.

[Jaelommiss]

Did you read all my posts, or did you just took this out of context?

I've had multiple healers in multiple jobs come in and do 0 heal, only dps. Even the PLD did more heal than them.

I read all of your posts. Doesn't change that I disagree with you.

The available tools make it incredibly clear when someone is underperforming. Healers who don't heal for the sake of extra damage spells are poor healers and this is always identifiable if you look at all three of damage percentile, healing difference between healers, and overhealing percentage.

I also took a look at some of your logs and I'll agree that some of your cohealers were healing significantly less than you. I find it hard to fault them, however, when you were healing so aggressively and excessively that you had as much as 73.3% overheal (most were around 45%, lowest I saw was 37%). It makes sense that you often run into cohealers who don't heal because you are leaving them nothing to heal.

You'll note that I was able to use logs to assess your quality as a healer. You'll also note that the your damage percentile was wholly irrelevant to it. Some healers may play poorly to inflate a single metric that is logged, but that does nothing to diminish comprehensive logs as a useful tool for analysis and assessment.

[AnotherPerson]

This is laughably incorrect.

The damage percentile alone doesn't tell the entire story when it comes to assessing healers, but it's not worthless. In combination with the other high-level information, such as healing amount and overheal percent, it becomes incredibly helpful. I've also been in charge of recruitment for my static this tier. I can usually get a decent sense for how someone heals by looking at a few of their past clears. Is this applicant a good healer who has been hampered by their previous groups or cohealers? I can see that. Is this a lazy overhealer who doesn't carry their weight? I can see that too.

If that's not what you need, then you can dive into the details to see where resources and CDs are being wasted and find ways to improve. I've helped six healers get their first savage clears this expansion, and being able to review their logs was vital for giving them individualized feedback about where they can improve. The ones who were most interested in reviewing their logs with me are all high blue to high purple for damage and dramatically reduced their overhealing without forcing their cohealer to pick up any slack. Improving their damage output came as a consequence of improving their healing. They waste less resources, have fewer deaths, and see cleaner clears. I wouldn't have considered any of them for my static based on their previous performance, but because they parsed their runs and chose to use that information they are now excellent players who are great to coheal with.

This. There's a lot of misconception that healers are playing perfectly when they can heal everyone and keep them topped off, or no one dies in a fight. For the most part, that's average healer gameplay. That's not how good healer gameplay works at all in this game due to the way fights are designed. The raid ends when the enemies are dead and there's no more incoming damage.

It's exactly due to this that good healer gameplay and healer improvement revolves around minimizing overhealing & freeing GCDs for more dps while preventing death. ACT becomes a very valuable resource to get specific data in determining how a player can improve by diving into what they can replace or remove to become more efficient. Sure, healers can do that to a certain extent without ACT, but with raw statistics and detailed analysis, it becomes easier to pinpoint the areas that can be used for improvement.

There's no doubt in my mind that healing everyone and keeping them topped off and overhealing works for most content as people can get away with spamming cure II and overhealing tanks. However, in min ilvl where optimizing healing, damage, and mana consumption is the difference between a wipe and a clear, people will be able to see what the 'good' healer gameplay looks like because that's the content where healers will maximize their toolkit usage.

[Awha]

Sorry telling someone they are playing poorly and removing them is not toxic or harassment, expecting people to carry someone who under performing is toxic imo.

[Colt47]

You don't invite anyone to your group in PF, you don't get to filter that. The majority of farm parties outside of statics are done via PF, so FFlogs is the only means by which you can weed out a mediocre player that might cause you to hit enrage. What did I misunderstand, exactly? I'm not talking about people who haven't cleared savage or extreme fights. I never was. I have been talking about content that's on-farm since a few posts back.

I still can't figure out why people keep doing this with PF. You can't just open a PF group and the group runs itself! If anything, using public PF group is even more work on the organizers part than running a group that has been put together ahead of time. If you want to improve your runs, organize on discord and get people who are likeminded to join you.

"Well, PF works for the people who are running savage farms..." = Yes and no. Savage farming is kind of a unique thing in that the community that does savage is very limited in size, so when someone runs savage farms in PF they run with the same people, just not necessarily in the same combination. Even then the savage runs are pretty messy because of the variance in strategies and those who don't have time to keep up with the herd get culled by getting stuck in learning groups mid to late season. It's a barely functioning mess of a system but it's what we got to work with.

I feel for you though. Running Pug groups in PF is grueling because you have to spend a long time waiting for momentum to build up just to get the group filled, then one person messes up and those with an itchy trigger finger jump ship the moment they smell no easy loot. I typically avoid any kind of pug group when I can and go with other things like static savage nights or just running more easy going content.

[MichiPichi]

however, when you were healing so aggressively and excessively that you had as much as 73.3% overheal

Just cosigning, if I see my cohealer is 50% above on over healing and very little dps, I also stop healing as there's no point. And me dpsing more, picks up for their lack of dps.

[basketofseals]

Sorry telling someone they are playing poorly and removing them is not toxic or harassment, expecting people to carry someone who under performing is toxic imo.

At the same time, I don't really trust the playerbase to handle themselves should the tables turn.

Yeah parses are just a tool, but SE goes out of their way to snatch away all the tools they can for a good reason. Whenever something is around to be abused, the toxicity just bursts out of the woodwork. The nicer community in FFXIV isn't something that just naturally happened, it's very deliberately enforced/fostered.

In an ideal world, they'd allow parsing and just ban everyone who abuses it, but that's a lot of work for not a lot of reward.

Personally I'm a big fan of the status quo. Parsing is a necessary tool, and you're totally within your rights to handle any decisions based on that privately, but I don't think it should be officially endorsed. That's just giving power/encouragement to the wrong types of people.

[elioaiko]

While I have hear stories of people being bullied and those who do deserve to be put in their place, ACT is not the problem, which is why SE looks past it. Yoshi P is fully aware that people can use it to bully others so it won't ever be in the game because he would never hear the end of it.

Like others have said, it's a grey area. However it's the only really to know if you're actually performing well. SSS is lackluster but it's good to practice your rotation since you can reset it when you mess up.

FFXIV raiding progression is memorizing steps and meeting the DPS check which makes perfecting your rotation important because the better your practice, the faster you can clear.

Like some others have said as well, the moment ACT disappears, raiding will fall apart. It would be frustrating to unable to see how far your group is from clearing or meeting the DPS check and Ultimate would likely be next to impossible.

Also, if someone wants to do Savage and Ultimate raiding, and you're not performing well and want to get carried, that in itself is toxic. Same as those who weaponize ACT to bully someone, getting mad because you want to be rewarded for not putting in the same effort as 7 other people is honestly disgusting.

ACT is just a tool, report them if you bully you and blacklist them. You will find other people who will respect you and help you improve if you're willing and wanting to be better.

[Rilifane]

Just cosigning, if I see my cohealer is 50% above on over healing and very little dps, I also stop healing as there's no point. And me dpsing more, picks up for their lack of dps.

Same here.
If I frequently see hardcasted heals, lots of hots all over the place and shields before every aoe, I will tune down my own healing and likely only heal as long as it's not a dps loss or to fill gaps when I know my co healer just blew all his resources and is now out of options. If they can't even wait for their own regens to heal people and have to burst with yet another aoe heal that's on them. I will not waste resources on something that's actually detrimental for the group.
There is no point in topping people asap because if they fail a mechanic they're toast anyway regardless of their hp. The only interesting part is when the next unavoidable will hit. As long as they're above the requires threshold they will be fine. Wether an aoe brings them to 50k or 10k really doesn't matter. Alive is alive. You don't get brownie points for people looking healthy or high speed topping.

[PharisHanasaki]

snip

Yes, but the logs I talk about are not up there because I don't upload them. I quickly realized I was the only one healing from the very first run because people would spend a lot of time under top health unless I healed.

I agree I overheal, I'm aware. I don't remember asking you to check my logs. But thank you for your opinion.