Final Fantasy XIV’s healer problem and how it’s kind of unsolvable

[AnotherPerson]

This part isn't necessarily related to healing though. That being said, even with the cards, AST still comes down to Malefic spam. At the end of the day, that is how healers are envisioned in this game and also why I can't see them changing their "formula" again because ShB was their chance to nail it down forever so that next expansion they can add another healer to fit in with that formula.

What do you mean it's not related to healing? DPS rotations for a healer is related to healer gameplay and healing in general. Since downtime exists, it's related to healing because damage skills is a healer's tool to mitigate incoming damage by speeding up fights. If the boss can't use their next raidwide AoE because you contributed to DPSing and killed them off before they got a chance to let that attack off, it means you reduced the number of Medica/Helios/Succor/Benefic II/Cure II/Adlo/GCD healing spells required, then yes it's intrinsically related to healing. Some bosses do get stronger if you let them live longer - Ex bosses using Akh Morn. Some bosses will hit another tankbuster mechanic. The longer they live, the more stressful and taxing it is on the healers - because not only do you have to take into consideration with more incoming damage and having less MP from using more mana-intensive spells, it's assumed the party will still be able to perform at a certain standard as the fight progresses. As you may have experienced, the longer a fight goes - even in a scripted fight - the easier it is for a player to lose concentration and start taking more avoidable AoEs and the more MP it is required to keep the party running. So yes, it's completely related to healing.

Easy way to see this would be WHM Holy on trash packs - more damage to mobs + stuns = less outgoing damage on the team + less hits the tank will take. The faster something dies, the less time it has to hit.

If you were referring to how AST's card system isn't related to healing, it is completely related because it's related to healer gameplay. The old card system enabled AST to buff / increase def/ party AoE with royal road. It was used in conjunction to your healing skills. More mitigation = less incoming damage = less healing. More damage = faster fights = less overall healing required.

It's exactly due to raiding being very difficult during ARR because of constant party wipes and healer DPS helping to contribute to ensure those runs become successful that the idea of healers DPSing became a thing. It's also why people say a good healer doesn't overheal. Healers would save mana by not overhealing and save a GCD to DPS and speed up the fight. It's also partly why some healers would overDPS and how a healer misjudges the need to heal assuming the party would be fine when they start taking avoidable AoEs. Granted, healer DPS may not be required in most fights - but a good healer will DPS regardless because this is a way to actively mitigate and reduce stress on both the healers and the entire party in general.

As for AST's current system, it has a weaker damage up effect per card that is hard to see without a parser unless you pop both divination and the buffs together, but it still is completely related to healing. It speeds up fights which means less incoming damage. The only difference is the fun involved with the fight. Pressing one button for 12 to 18 minutes straight gets dull fairly fast. This is what healers might have been envisioned on this expansion, but that was not the case for previous expansions. With healer complaint being as high as they are, not changing the current paradigm for the sake of balance will only lead to what AST has now - complaints for a Balanced and a functional job, but being played less as a whole.

If what you say is true about how Savage/Ultimate is the focus of changes for Balance, then healer gameplay & enjoyment starts from there - where healer DPS actually does matter because healer DPS does make the difference between wiping and clearing. If people at Savage and Ultimate complains of a lack of DPS rotation on healers, then it should a valid concern for gameplay enjoyment. I'm all for all healer jobs getting an extra DPS skill if it means breaking the boredom of pressing one button consistently.

[ForteNightshade]

This part isn't necessarily related to healing though. That being said, even with the cards, AST still comes down to Malefic spam. At the end of the day, that is how healers are envisioned in this game and also why I can't see them changing their "formula" again because ShB was their chance to nail it down forever so that next expansion they can add another healer to fit in with that formula.

To be fair, I don't imagine they anticipated their changes to be met with this much vitriol. One year in and people are still complaining. Even White Mage and the dreaded Stormblood Lilies or Bowmage quieted down faster than healer complaints have now. That isn't to say I necessarily disagree as SE has proven time and time again they can be incredibly stubborn but when even the casual playerbase is upset. They tend to listen.

[althenawhm]

To be fair, I don't imagine they anticipated their changes to be met with this much vitriol. One year in and people are still complaining. Even White Mage and the dreaded Stormblood Lilies or Bowmage quieted down faster than healer complaints have now.

To be fair, Stormblood lilies were super easy to ignore, just toss on simplified job gauge, shrink it, and toss it in a corner. Its almost unbelievable how little impact they had.

[Videra]

To be fair, Stormblood lilies were super easy to ignore, just toss on simplified job gauge, shrink it, and toss it in a corner. Its almost unbelievable how little impact they had.

I sincerely forgot Lilies exist in SB.

[Rai_Takara]

What do you mean it's not related to healing?

What I meant was the specifics of healer DPS isn't part of the general healing discussion. When people ask for healer changes, what they're asking for is to heal like other MMOs. The problem with this is that FFXIV isn't designed with the traditional healer in mind, as we know.

If what you say is true about how Savage/Ultimate is the focus of changes for Balance, then healer gameplay & enjoyment starts from there - where healer DPS actually does matter because healer DPS does make the difference between wiping and clearing. If people at Savage and Ultimate complains of a lack of DPS rotation on healers, then it should a valid concern for gameplay enjoyment. I'm all for all healer jobs getting an extra DPS skill if it means breaking the boredom of pressing one button consistently.

Which is what I agree with, in that we need more things for healers to do besides healing because making healers heal more is not on the table anymore.

To be fair, I don't imagine they anticipated their changes to be met with this much vitriol. One year in and people are still complaining. Even White Mage and the dreaded Stormblood Lilies or Bowmage quieted down faster than healer complaints have now. That isn't to say I necessarily disagree as SE has proven time and time again they can be incredibly stubborn but when even the casual playerbase is upset. They tend to listen.

Honestly from what I can see, it's really not that bad. Really, the only place I've noticed any consistent dissatisfaction is here on the forums and that's always been the case, regardless of what expansion we're in. On top of that, we both know the change to AST cards for example, was not because of forum feedback. This just puts into perspective where the forums are when it comes to job changes.

This expansion has been pretty much standardizing things to create a foundation to build from with balance being the utmost importance. With that in mind, Lillies had to be changed, as did cards, and so on. Will they try to accommodate casual players? Sure. Will they do it at the cost of balance? I don't believe so, not anymore.

[Tsumdere]

God... I miss prepping an buffed and extended Arrow for my black mage and hearing them lose their mind in joy. I miss being able to extend a bard's Foe's Requiem with a Ewer (double rip there).

I would have rather them remove the Balance completely and replace it with a support oriented card, and then tack a 3% damage buff on all cards so people wouldn't be fishing that much anymore.

AST buffs are so boring now I forget they exist.

[GrimGale]

With the multiple times Yoshi P says things like "I think the healer jobs should focus on healing", I believe that whatever comes down the pipe, it will on the surface level seem to support a reactive healing playstyle, for the kinds of players who don't want to DPS because they want to jump in with a clutch heal if things go wrong. Even if high level play requires DPS, the zero DPS healer should get no flak in the eyes of SE. And the healer design reflects this.

But we can't focus on healing. There is barely any healing to do!

[Sloprano]

A take on healing and a new healer job in FFXIV at Massively OP: https://massivelyop.com/2020/05/18/w...of-unsolvable/

Seems to summarize some core issues pretty well.

Thank you for sharing. Actually seeing some publication on us is really strange and good, hoping it gains traction. Thats why I feel bad for lambasting the artical for not being critical enough and bringing up the ever-loving point that hangs over a MOG:

Repetition.

I will stand by that gear makes everything easier for every new point. As there are actually two systems in this game: The actions we do and the ever calculating numbers in the background. As our ilvl goes up we notice fights goes by faster. But as a healer I get on that point a lot earlier.

Remember repetition? First time in a new place, you might have Galvanize (fuck you Catalyze) up at all times as every time the boss rears his bum you get ready for something that hurts. But turns out he was just gonna scratch it. No attack going out. And you remember this to the next time. You save that Succor MP and gcd and instead use Broil III. That is every single encounter. In Copperbell, Eos could take care of it, in E5S we even have ogcds to not interrupt the broiling. Yes, as our gear becomes better so do we, but also by learning the fight do we get better. And have less healing to do.

On the topic of bad players. I don't think I've met any. Inexperienced? Several. Many who like the jobs and idea of healing, but never wanted to even consider signing up as conjurer or any of the other jobs for that matter. Some of these were friends and know what I did? Asked if they wanted help, took them next to a training dummy and told them to stand there, read every skill, try it out and press it several times. For every skill for at least half an hour. Then join any dungeon with them as tank and walk them through it. As was posted in the General chat, one of the friends who stuck with WHM is now using Swiftcast on Glare. With learning the job comes confidence, and with confidence know you don't need to be spamming Cure II all the time. Except for when the tanks equipment breaks mid-pack, then you still know every emergency button you have.

We have Halls of the Novice. Where's Halls of the Intermediate? The Expert? "Hall of the Adroit". New one unlocked at levels 50, 60, 70 and 80 respectively. Before you can go and do the big show-MSQ-down. Need to say you've been there and just proven you have all your skills and have pressed them. They did almost something like it with the Role Quests and AF gear in 5.0. Or, thats a laugh. Don't remember doing much healing inbetween DPSing sineaters and using repose. I'm reminded of how Driver 1 wouldn't let you start the story until you did nine car maneuvers in under sixty seconds. That was a real pain for child-me, but it teach me how to do 180' handbrake turns on muscle memory which came to good use in the story missions.

And on the topic of "giving more dps to healers" I do as I always do: Point to 3.0 Scholar. It didn't have one dot/one casted spell simplicity. It didn't have strict rotations, buff windows and lit up buttons. These are extreme ends. What 3.0 SCH had was something in between. A large collection of loosely or not connected THINGS YOU COULD DO skills that were ALWAYS available. The dots? Put up one or five, they all helped. Shadowflare? Takes time to put up but is mitigation and damage in one. Virus? Less damage if you can time it. E4E? Throw it out when you can. Stoneskin? Refresh it so you can get one more dot out. And the big one: Cleric Stance. Completely optional, but always there when you wanted it!

3.0 SCH resided somewhere between the numb design we have today and a BLM's rotation. Everything was optional, almost no cooldowns and it could be worked around doing the role as you ebbed and flowed with dots, the fairy and cleric stance's five second cooldown.

I still don't want a red-iconed job's rotation on SCH, because lit up buttons and buff windows is something I will believe to be detrimental to my role. As I would get hard-wired to want to finish this combo or squeeze out another Broil and ED before Chain strat ends. Oh wait.

The problem is far from insoluable, SE just needs put actual time and thought into the problem and stop thinking healers are made of fucking calcium sulfate.

[KDSilver]

If the RNG system requires tools to remove all of the RNG, then what is the point?

This is my main issue.

Stormblood iteration was fine for that.
You couldn't compete with RNG 100% of the time, but you had enough option so you could deal with what you had.
With a wise usage a Royal Road/Spread and Sleeve Draw with a 2min CD, you could have what you wanted.

The point of "having tools to counter RNG" is actually... playing. Gambling. That was the essence of Astrologian. You can't have these result without using what your toolkit offers. It needs a bit of dedication to it. And it was just, fun.

[Shofie]

I am not a fan of the rhetoric that to be a "good" healer you have to DPS, because it applies the logic that a healer that is completely apt at healing is a "bad" healer, even if for some reason they do not or cannot DPS in addition to healing. In my opinion, a "good" healer is a healer who keeps their party in good health and within reason, alive.

DPS, according to Yoshi-P, has NEVER been "required" to play the job endgame. No fights are tuned with healer's DPS in mind, a healer can refrain from DPSing and the fight is entirely clearable in spite of this--even endgame hardcore raid content. It will go faster if the healer joins in, but it is not ever mandatory.

Healers have DPS abilities because they have to play through the same content at the start of the game solo that everyone else does, and if healers had absolutely zero damage abilities, how would they even slog to level 15 to get to their first dungeon? That's pretty much it. So we can quest and do stuff without a party holding our hand.

People took this to read as, "Well, it's part of your toolkit, you have to do it or you're a bad healer!" which just never sat right with me. No, it'd make you a fantastic player if you can juggle dps and healing, but it does not inherently, paradoxically, make you a better "healer" for using DPS skills.

To be clear here: I think healers should DPS if they're able to, and "able" is a really broad word here. Not every player is created the same, and some of us struggle with balancing healing with DPS on a lot of days, and that shouldn't be considered someone being a "bad healer" because they aren't DPSing "enough". But, if the party is doing mechanics well, and everyone's geared decently enough, and staying out of AOEs, and you find they don't need much attention...then yeah, throw some DPS out, hell yeah.

But the attitude that healers must DPS or they are bad is a very toxic mindset, as evidenced by plenty of threads and players getting chuddy with people because they aren't DPSing, when in many cases, they healer simply can't do to some factor that the players either hadn't noticed, or simply hadn't thought of.

I do like the Blood Lily mechanic and would like to see similar things implemented for other healer classes for sure though. It's quite a difference going from Astrologian to White Mage and how much more DPS-friendly WHM is because of it's design than AST.