Final Fantasy XIV’s healer problem and how it’s kind of unsolvable

[Rai_Takara]

Afraid them staying the course in 5.2 means nothing, they stayed the course for all of HW with bowmage, they stayed the course of old Ast for HW+SB, it will be 6.0 that will determine if the new card system is here to stay or not. Just like it will be 6.0 if current healer design remains or if they will change.

That's true. However, bow mage was a different circumstance, imo. People didn't really complain about it and it was more of a thing the devs wanted to try. Problem with the old cards is there were complaints against it. That's why they had to change them from the get go, not that they did it for the sake of it.

I can see them potentially changing cards in 6.0 but I don't think it will be going back to the old system if they do. It will be yet another new system, but to some, anything is better than the current one. Similarly, I highly doubt they will change healers much, if at all, considering this expansion was their chance and this is what they came up with. Which is more of the same, except removing DPS tools. Will they add more DPS or utility management for healers in the future? Possibly. Will they redesign how healer plays in general? Near zero chance.

[AnotherPerson]

I can see them potentially changing cards in 6.0 but I don't think it will be going back to the old system if they do. It will be yet another new system, but to some, anything is better than the current one. Similarly, I highly doubt they will change healers much, if at all, considering this expansion was their chance and this is what they came up with. Which is more of the same, except removing DPS tools. Will they add more DPS or utility management for healers in the future? Possibly. Will they redesign how healer plays in general? Near zero chance.

There were complaints with the old cards because Balance was fished and used more often in relative comparison to resource-efficiency of the other cards. Making all cards a Balance doesn't address the issue, because now you have a whole system designed for fishing Balance. They could have adjusted the system where Balance isn't the most powerful card. Granted, the previous system left RNG too much randomness and the devs probably didn't know what to replace the card effects like Spire with. Honestly, they could've just made Spire an -x stack- instant cast with -% mana mitigation- effect and it would still be useful for weaving when Lightspeed is down and used for raising.

Preferably though, if they plan on making the card system so prevalent and important to the job's core identity - I rather see the draw skill turn into 3 different buttons, replace Undraw and Redraw for them so you get 50% RNG to draw the card you want (separated by seals) where all cards act as a support/resource buff in some way. Then move the damage mechanic elsewhere so people won't complain about AST's unstable rDPS. Sleeve draw can stay as it is and become a random draw (hence the name "sleeve" draw), but you can see what 3 cards you're going to draw in the gauge in advance to prevent tunnel vision syndrome and yet still leave a RNG aspect and weaving aspect.

I highly doubt they won't redesign how healers play in general - SCH are complaining heavily about their loss of DPS kit which was well designed. Both WHM and SCH doesn't have a system that takes the focus of pressing one DPS button away from the game. ASTs have a special case because the card system was designed in mind to be watching other players and figuring out when you should be giving a buff, when they were making mistakes that you can mitigate with your cards, etc. It took away the focus of spamming Malefic as much and put Malefic in the background focus that you do to keep yourself from idling while putting the card system in front. The Lily system and aetherflow system does not do that. They are simply tools that you use for healing which can be built up or swapped for damage. There's no other focus the player can swap to, which makes spamming glare/broil heavily noticeable in contrast.

Healers should be getting the DPS rotations back - I don't understand why it is thought that healers cannot do complex DPS rotations. They're players like the rest of the DPS. It makes no sense to think Ninja, SMN, and BLM can have such a complex rotation, but healers cannot do the same to a lesser extent while weaving oGCD healing skills like an oGCD damaging skill. It just boggles the mind. Damage doesn't come out that fast in the game, and if it does then healers can forgo DPSing. Just lowering the number of options that a healer CAN have when performing well is a bad idea. Just take a look at the AST's card variety and the complaints there. The current system is good balance wise - but the lack of variety and options made players complain in general because it took away options that CAN make the experience of a healer more enjoyable. I expect there will be one healer that gets changed (probably AST) that will get more buffs, but keep its current paradigm because it works well with it due to the existence of the card system. The others could have their DPS rotations to make their gameplay unique and give more of a challenge for healers who can handle a more complex job.

Here's something I realized - Incoming damage at SB Shrinyu was actually at a good place. There was a decent amount of incoming damage and the amount kept healers on their toes while giving ample downtime. Considering how there would be healers, who for some reason, can't DPS (or won't DPS) and heal at the same time because they can't multi-task without stressing themselves too much, adding more incoming damage actually would be counter-intuitive if SE wants those healers to heal better because those healers would just be stressed all the time in contrast to the downtime we already have. At that point it's best to just take advantage of downtime by making it less of a chore to play in spamming one button over and over again for those who can multi-task. It'll raise the ceiling of healer gameplay without punishing healers who can't rise to the challenge (since SE believes healer DPS is optional), but still keep the game difficult for those healers since outgoing damage is already a challenge for them to keep up with.

[Irenia]

With the multiple times Yoshi P says things like "I think the healer jobs should focus on healing", I believe that whatever comes down the pipe, it will on the surface level seem to support a reactive healing playstyle, for the kinds of players who don't want to DPS because they want to jump in with a clutch heal if things go wrong. Even if high level play requires DPS, the zero DPS healer should get no flak in the eyes of SE. And the healer design reflects this.

If they can figure out a way to make healer DPS interesting, while simultaneously making it seem like these healers are made for healing, I have no doubt they will do that. I have no official word from the team, this is simply something I believe after looking at the events and evidence. Take this with as much salt as you like.

[Rai_Takara]

I highly doubt they won't redesign how healers play in general - SCH are complaining heavily about their loss of DPS kit which was well designed. Both WHM and SCH doesn't have a system that takes the focus of pressing one DPS button away from the game. ASTs have a special case because the card system was designed in mind to be watching other players and figuring out when you should be giving a buff, when they were making mistakes that you can mitigate with your cards, etc. It took away the focus of spamming Malefic as much and put Malefic in the background focus that you do to keep yourself from idling while putting the card system in front. The Lily system and aetherflow system does not do that. They are simply tools that you use for healing which can be built up or swapped for damage. There's no other focus the player can swap to, which makes spamming glare/broil heavily noticeable in contrast.

This part isn't necessarily related to healing though. That being said, even with the cards, AST still comes down to Malefic spam. At the end of the day, that is how healers are envisioned in this game and also why I can't see them changing their "formula" again because ShB was their chance to nail it down forever so that next expansion they can add another healer to fit in with that formula.

[AnotherPerson]

This part isn't necessarily related to healing though. That being said, even with the cards, AST still comes down to Malefic spam. At the end of the day, that is how healers are envisioned in this game and also why I can't see them changing their "formula" again because ShB was their chance to nail it down forever so that next expansion they can add another healer to fit in with that formula.

What do you mean it's not related to healing? DPS rotations for a healer is related to healer gameplay and healing in general. Since downtime exists, it's related to healing because damage skills is a healer's tool to mitigate incoming damage by speeding up fights. If the boss can't use their next raidwide AoE because you contributed to DPSing and killed them off before they got a chance to let that attack off, it means you reduced the number of Medica/Helios/Succor/Benefic II/Cure II/Adlo/GCD healing spells required, then yes it's intrinsically related to healing. Some bosses do get stronger if you let them live longer - Ex bosses using Akh Morn. Some bosses will hit another tankbuster mechanic. The longer they live, the more stressful and taxing it is on the healers - because not only do you have to take into consideration with more incoming damage and having less MP from using more mana-intensive spells, it's assumed the party will still be able to perform at a certain standard as the fight progresses. As you may have experienced, the longer a fight goes - even in a scripted fight - the easier it is for a player to lose concentration and start taking more avoidable AoEs and the more MP it is required to keep the party running. So yes, it's completely related to healing.

Easy way to see this would be WHM Holy on trash packs - more damage to mobs + stuns = less outgoing damage on the team + less hits the tank will take. The faster something dies, the less time it has to hit.

If you were referring to how AST's card system isn't related to healing, it is completely related because it's related to healer gameplay. The old card system enabled AST to buff / increase def/ party AoE with royal road. It was used in conjunction to your healing skills. More mitigation = less incoming damage = less healing. More damage = faster fights = less overall healing required.

It's exactly due to raiding being very difficult during ARR because of constant party wipes and healer DPS helping to contribute to ensure those runs become successful that the idea of healers DPSing became a thing. It's also why people say a good healer doesn't overheal. Healers would save mana by not overhealing and save a GCD to DPS and speed up the fight. It's also partly why some healers would overDPS and how a healer misjudges the need to heal assuming the party would be fine when they start taking avoidable AoEs. Granted, healer DPS may not be required in most fights - but a good healer will DPS regardless because this is a way to actively mitigate and reduce stress on both the healers and the entire party in general.

As for AST's current system, it has a weaker damage up effect per card that is hard to see without a parser unless you pop both divination and the buffs together, but it still is completely related to healing. It speeds up fights which means less incoming damage. The only difference is the fun involved with the fight. Pressing one button for 12 to 18 minutes straight gets dull fairly fast. This is what healers might have been envisioned on this expansion, but that was not the case for previous expansions. With healer complaint being as high as they are, not changing the current paradigm for the sake of balance will only lead to what AST has now - complaints for a Balanced and a functional job, but being played less as a whole.

If what you say is true about how Savage/Ultimate is the focus of changes for Balance, then healer gameplay & enjoyment starts from there - where healer DPS actually does matter because healer DPS does make the difference between wiping and clearing. If people at Savage and Ultimate complains of a lack of DPS rotation on healers, then it should a valid concern for gameplay enjoyment. I'm all for all healer jobs getting an extra DPS skill if it means breaking the boredom of pressing one button consistently.

[ForteNightshade]

This part isn't necessarily related to healing though. That being said, even with the cards, AST still comes down to Malefic spam. At the end of the day, that is how healers are envisioned in this game and also why I can't see them changing their "formula" again because ShB was their chance to nail it down forever so that next expansion they can add another healer to fit in with that formula.

To be fair, I don't imagine they anticipated their changes to be met with this much vitriol. One year in and people are still complaining. Even White Mage and the dreaded Stormblood Lilies or Bowmage quieted down faster than healer complaints have now. That isn't to say I necessarily disagree as SE has proven time and time again they can be incredibly stubborn but when even the casual playerbase is upset. They tend to listen.

[althenawhm]

To be fair, I don't imagine they anticipated their changes to be met with this much vitriol. One year in and people are still complaining. Even White Mage and the dreaded Stormblood Lilies or Bowmage quieted down faster than healer complaints have now.

To be fair, Stormblood lilies were super easy to ignore, just toss on simplified job gauge, shrink it, and toss it in a corner. Its almost unbelievable how little impact they had.

[Videra]

To be fair, Stormblood lilies were super easy to ignore, just toss on simplified job gauge, shrink it, and toss it in a corner. Its almost unbelievable how little impact they had.

I sincerely forgot Lilies exist in SB.

[Rai_Takara]

What do you mean it's not related to healing?

What I meant was the specifics of healer DPS isn't part of the general healing discussion. When people ask for healer changes, what they're asking for is to heal like other MMOs. The problem with this is that FFXIV isn't designed with the traditional healer in mind, as we know.

If what you say is true about how Savage/Ultimate is the focus of changes for Balance, then healer gameplay & enjoyment starts from there - where healer DPS actually does matter because healer DPS does make the difference between wiping and clearing. If people at Savage and Ultimate complains of a lack of DPS rotation on healers, then it should a valid concern for gameplay enjoyment. I'm all for all healer jobs getting an extra DPS skill if it means breaking the boredom of pressing one button consistently.

Which is what I agree with, in that we need more things for healers to do besides healing because making healers heal more is not on the table anymore.

To be fair, I don't imagine they anticipated their changes to be met with this much vitriol. One year in and people are still complaining. Even White Mage and the dreaded Stormblood Lilies or Bowmage quieted down faster than healer complaints have now. That isn't to say I necessarily disagree as SE has proven time and time again they can be incredibly stubborn but when even the casual playerbase is upset. They tend to listen.

Honestly from what I can see, it's really not that bad. Really, the only place I've noticed any consistent dissatisfaction is here on the forums and that's always been the case, regardless of what expansion we're in. On top of that, we both know the change to AST cards for example, was not because of forum feedback. This just puts into perspective where the forums are when it comes to job changes.

This expansion has been pretty much standardizing things to create a foundation to build from with balance being the utmost importance. With that in mind, Lillies had to be changed, as did cards, and so on. Will they try to accommodate casual players? Sure. Will they do it at the cost of balance? I don't believe so, not anymore.