Punish MSQ Cutscene Skippers

[Awha]

And honestly--you mentioned about people using the ToS--the ToS is simply there for when or if Square does decide to take action against cutscene skippers. It is like with any contract you sign; you can complain all you like when action is or if it is taken, but it was there in writing when you agreed to it and getting banned or suspended was inevitably your doing.

The problem that people have with cutscene skipping is that you end up robbing newer players out of the experience and yes, you can make as many excuses as you like, but you don't know the player or what they were looking forward to when playing this game. However, you still made a choice FOR THEM when you decided to cutscene skip. The same problem with cutscenes in the first place and WHY this was implemented to begin with.

Sure if I break the ToS and get punished I will take my punishment and even I do get punished not like it will be a permanent ban. The thjng is in game people rarely complain, this seems more like a forum issue. In the end i cannot control the actions of others, if people wish to follow suit and skip with me and start attacking the boss I cannot prevent that. If someone wants to watch and take part in the basic fight cool, they can leave and requeue and try again. Just as I can requeue and try again if I end up with a group that does not skip.

People put a lot of faith in the ToS, sure it gives SE the power to punish people that violate it, but if they do not enforcement or maintain their stance on having absolute evidence then the chances of action being taken against my account are fairly low.

Personally I feel people should take more control over their own play experience. Do not like what a group is doing leave, try again or queue with friends. If a group is too slow for my taste I make a choice to stay and deal, leave and try again with strangers or friends. In the end i do not have to run the content but if I rush it quickly via skipping why not get it out the way? Sure I am not playing as SE intended, but that is on them for not punishing the use of the bug and or fixing it.

I mean, it does exist, or else we wouldn't be arguing about it. You're going to find people who oppose it because it ultimately is a selfish act. You made a choice and whether you intended it or not, you force others to either comply to the skipping or ignore it. Because if they speak up, they may have to deal with what you just listed above.

To be fair on a personal level if someone makes fun of me or bashes me over a video game I do not view it as harrassment or take it to heart. As I said if group is down for watching the cut scenes I will just leave and do something else during the timer. Not like my queues are all that long since I often queue as healer or tank just to ensure a quicker pace.

Aren't we all selfish to a degree one way or another? Not like I think it is wrong to be selfish if someone were to call me selfish I would agree with them. It is not so much forcing since they are free to leave just as I am.

[TyrTry]

Snip

You're right. You don't have any actions over anyone else, but you do control your own.

You seem to be taking this is with the lenses of your own experience and although that may be fine for you, it most likely wasn't for someone in your party. And man, I'll tell ya, I've been there and done that with the whole "aren't we all selfish?" question. Yeah, of course we're all selfish. To a degree. But it depends on how your selfishness affects the people around you. This in the end, is an MMO. You're playing with multiple people each and every day with multiple personalities. "You are free to leave" is not a good solution and does not leave any option for the player when they were never given any to begin with.

This is clearly a bug; an exploit; something the designers did not attend. If they ever decide to fix it? Who knows. People put power in the ToS like people quote their contracts; it is there in writing and it is there for a reason (whether they enforce it or not and whether you agree with it or not).

People do take control over their own experiences as much as they can, but it is never seen in a positive light when that control is stripped away from them by other players.

[Awha]

You're right. You don't have any actions over anyone else, but you do control your own.

You seem to be taking this is with the lenses of your own experience and although that may be fine for you, it most likely wasn't for someone in your party. And man, I'll tell ya, I've been there and done that with the whole "aren't we all selfish?" question. Yeah, of course we're all selfish. To a degree. But it depends on how your selfishness affects the people around you. This in the end, is an MMO. You're playing with multiple people each and every day with multiple personalities. "You are free to leave" is not a good solution and does not leave any option for the player when they were never given any to begin with.

This is clearly a bug; an exploit; something the designers did not attend. If they ever decide to fix it? Who knows. People put power in the ToS like people quote their contracts; it is there in writing and it is there for a reason (whether they enforce it or not and whether you agree with it or not).

People do take control over their own experiences as much as they can, but it is never seen in a positive light when that control is stripped away from them by other players.

It may not be seen as a positive thing to you, but for me if a player does what they can feel to improve their overall game play experience I will never fault them when it comes to non competitive games. If that means parsing, using bots to get an plot, skipping cut scenes I am not going to scorn them for taking control of their own personal experience. Sure is it may be against the ToS, a ToS that is not enforced is not much of a ToS imo. Granted, I will not complain if it turns out they choose to enforce it. The players can quote the ToS all the way, but in the end they are not the ones that enforce it so players can disapprove.

[Sitsu]

The more I read what you write Awha, the more I remember the first times I did Prae and Castrum, when the cutscene were skippable.

I got kick around 8 times before I can get through it because I was watching cutscene, and people who did that have the same way of thinking than you: "It's the fastest way to get tomes".

If SE did make watching cs mandatory, it's because of that time, where new player have 2 choices: Watching the 2 first cutscene then requeue because they were kick, on pass all cutscene and don't understand the story.

And if half my team are skipping, I will report them. Not because of ToS, but because I don't want the poor newcommer to live what I lived.

[Awha]

The more I read what you write Awha, the more I remember the first times I did Prae and Castrum, when the cutscene were skippable.

I got kick around 8 times before I can get through it because I was watching cutscene, and people who did that have the same way of thinking than you: "It's the fastest way to get tomes".

If SE did make watching cs mandatory, it's because of that time, where new player have 2 choices: Watching the 2 first cutscene then requeue because they were kick, on pass all cutscene and don't understand the story.

And if half my team are skipping, I will report them. Not because of ToS, but because I don't want the poor newcommer to live what I lived.

That is fine, I have no problem with reports. Hell one can report anyone for anything the question is will SE take action, and personal history says unlikely. That is the thing that gets me people think ToS itself has the power to prevent issues or gives players power. In the end it is on SE to enforce their ToS and people should not begrudge others that work outside the ToS due to the lack of enforcement if it improves their overall game experience.

I get it may impact someone personally, but I am a simple person I have have control / care about myself and others close to me. I get it is an MMO, and if a group does not meetbmy expectations for whatever reason, I will either try to alter the elemenr to meet said expectations or leave.

Is it really a bad thing you were removed? Just met the group and yourself goals did not align. One does not know
if personal attack unless they outright say it is.

[Neoom]

Is it really a bad thing you were removed? Just met the group and yourself goals did not align. One does not know
if personal attack unless they outright say it is.

Removing the new player from the story dungeon they need to complete to continue story is a bad thing, there is no if or maybe. You don't need to do the dungeon, you only get bonus rewards, the new player has to complete it to get on with story. The goal is to help new players get faster quest to the dungeons and get them through them. There is no goal to just get some nice tomes or xp, that is merely a bonus you get from helping. And being kicked 8 times in a row and not getting a complete shows people like you only see tomes and ''gotta go fast'' mentality.

[Awha]

Removing the new player from the story dungeon they need to complete to continue story is a bad thing, there is no if or maybe. You don't need to do the dungeon, you only get bonus rewards, the new player has to complete it to get on with story. The goal is to help new players get faster quest to the dungeons and get them through them. There is no goal to just get some nice tomes or xp, that is merely a bonus you get from helping. And being kicked 8 times in a row and not getting a complete shows people like you only see tomes and ''gotta go fast'' mentality.

I get have a different outlook, but if a group removes me from the party it I will not get upset since way I see it no player personal owes me anything, nor do I owe them anything. If play styles or goals are different I rather be removed or leave personally.

Sure it may not be the intent behind the roulette, but it is nothing new for players to go against the intent of the devs, and often times when something goes against their intended view and they feel the need they change it. Thing with cut scene skippers, I am willing to be we few and fair in between and all the forum outrage does is potentially hurt those need to run the content in the future. While just like yourself I can only go based off personal experience but ingame many do not seem to have an issue with it, but any changes probably would have minimal impact on those that skipped the cutscene most likely they would simply move onto the new best method.

Take control of your experience, see someone skipping speak up and try to remove them. If the vote passes awesome means the group aligned with your desire, if not for whatever reason means you have a choice to make stay with the group and deal or leave. Sure you could report them, but that is not really an action step per-se since it probably will not change much of anything in that moment, or even in the future.

If players communicated more, and did not take getting removed or removing someone as a personal attack I do feel a lot of issues could be avoided. When I first ran msq, I was left behind during the magiktech tank part and this was before you got teleported to the boss room. I was lost for the rest of the dungeon. Sure it sucked, but it was on me for more communicating I was new, and even if I did say something by no means does that mean that people will offer help no matter the intent from the devs for the roulette. Player intent is not something the devs can force on people. We will find a way out of doing something forced if we desire it enough.

[Neoom]

If players communicated more, and did not take getting removed or removing someone as a personal attack I do feel a lot of issues could be avoided.

Removing new player who is trying to complete a quest that requires a duty is not personal, it is out right bad. No communication will help if people are not ready to wait or let them watch the cutsenes. No matter how you twist it, you can't make removing new player from the duty for watching cutscenes personal, it is simply the fact people don't care. Even more, if people say they're new, back in the day it meant being kicked cause people want fast runs, not someone who watches the cutsenes. Now days it means people skip them anyway and people have no choice but to sit in them.

[Awha]

Removing new player who is trying to complete a quest that requires a duty is not personal, it is out right bad. No communication will help if people are not ready to wait or let them watch the cutsenes. No matter how you twist it, you can't make removing new player from the duty for watching cutscenes personal, it is simply the fact people don't care. Even more, if people say they're new, back in the day it meant being kicked cause people want fast runs, not someone who watches the cutsenes. Now days it means people skip them anyway and people have no choice but to sit in them.

Sorry sort of confused. What is "bad" for one person may not be bad for another. If they are willing to do the action and accept what comes of it I can personally feel what they are doing is wrong but that does not change the fact that maybe in that person's mind what they are doing is right. That is why I refrain from putting what I view as wrong on another. I just go based off what steps I can take to control my own experience.

So I am slightly confused since we do not know what another person views as bad of good so to speak, and you agree removing someone from a group is not personal what is the issue? Is the issue we broke the ToS? But it is not being enforced so can we really fault players for working around it? Sure disagree with them, but as players we cannot enforce the game rules that is on SE if they do not care enough enforce it why should the players? That is my entire point people generally do not carre about the experience of others, and as such one has to do what they can to improve their own experience. That means trying to remove the element that is causing you issues in the moment, leaving, or forming your own group.

It seems we agree so sort of confused.

[Neoom]

Sorry sort of confused. What is "bad" for one person may not be bad for another. If they are willing to do the action and accept what comes of it I can personally feel what they are doing is wrong but that does not change the fact that maybe in that person's mind what they are doing is right. That is why I refrain from putting what I view as wrong on another. I just go based off what steps I can take to control my own experience.

So I am slightly confused since we do not know what another person views as bad of good so to speak, and you agree removing someone from a group is not personal what is the issue? Is the issue we broke the ToS? But it is not being enforced so can we really fault players for working around it? Sure disagree with them, but as players we cannot enforce the game rules that is on SE if they do not care enough enforce it why should the players? That is my entire point people generally do not carre about the experience of others, and as such one has to do what they can to improve their own experience. That means trying to remove the element that is causing you issues in the moment, leaving, or forming your own group.

It seems we agree so sort of confused.

You didn't read what I said, removing new player from a duty they need for story just because they watch cutsenes and will ''slow'' the duty down, can't be personal but it doesn't mean it is okay. If the new player caused trouble or did something wrong then you can remove them for a personal reason. There isn't even one option on the kick list for ''was watching cutsenes :/''. And are you saying that new player, fresh lvl50 needs to know how to collect 7 other people, on correct roles to be able to finish the duty since people in roulettes won't allow new players? Sure saying ''Hi I'm new '' might get some players slow down, but most ignore it anyway, so what can the new player do? Leave the duty they need? If people are no in NN (And most are bad anyway. so might not even be helpful) or have other players helping them, how will they find PF, how will they know how to form a full group? We, veterans should be the ones helping not making them leave the duty that is for them. Seems bit lopsided for me, doesn't take much to be a nice person and slow down for the leafs.