WHM downtime thoughts

[Saefinn]

snip

Whilst some inaccuracies on my part, I'll accept. I think in my post, I let myself confuse Light Magic with White Magic and Dark Magic with Black Magic. When light and darkness is umbral & astral.

Even then. The elements are split between White and Black Magic, even if they aren't opposites in terms of light and dark.

White Magic is not the same as Conjury, though in learning it, White Magic derives from the same elements as conjury and acts as an upgrade with light magic included. And it was the same balance for White Magic during the war of the Magi against the Black Mages of Mhach. And Red Magic holds the balance between White and Black Magic because of that war. White Magic in this game just isn't purely light or holy and to move into that direction I just don't think makes sense for this game. Light magic is meant to be an addition to their elemental magic, not an upgrade.

It just seems to be arbitrarily moving it more in line with WHM in other FF titles and touch on their themes, rather than the one they've already established.

[MirronTulaxia]

Whilst some inaccuracies on my part, I'll accept. I think in my post, I let myself confuse Light Magic with White Magic and Dark Magic with Black Magic. When light and darkness is umbral & astral.

Even then. The elements are split between White and Black Magic, even if they aren't opposites in terms of light and dark.

White Magic is not the same as Conjury, though in learning it, White Magic derives from the same elements as conjury and acts as an upgrade with light magic included. And it was the same balance for White Magic during the war of the Magi against the Black Mages of Mhach. And Red Magic holds the balance between White and Black Magic because of that war. White Magic in this game just isn't purely light or holy and to move into that direction I just don't think makes sense for this game. Light magic is meant to be an addition to their elemental magic, not an upgrade.

It just seems to be arbitrarily moving it more in line with WHM in other FF titles and touch on their themes, rather than the one they've already established.

The elements were split between them. Now they aren't. White Mages don't typically have a rigid 1:1 opposition with Black Mages in terms of elements. They use Holy/Light, while Black Mages tend to use Fire/Ice/Lightning. Letting another job take up the three elements White Mages were using, especially when they're likely to be more important thematically, isn't a big deal.

As far as how it impacts the lore, it really doesn't. White Mages way back when in the War of the Magi are different from White Mages now, and especially different from White Mage WoL. Nothing wrong with him moving away from those roots. It's not like Black Mages are going around dealing with Voidsent after all.

With regards to how arbitrary it is, if they're adding a job to better focus on those themes then it really isn't. While I personally feel they could have had White Mage and Geomancer both as healers others disagree.

[Saefinn]

The elements were split between them. Now they aren't. White Mages don't typically have a rigid 1:1 opposition with Black Mages in terms of elements. They use Holy/Light, while Black Mages tend to use Fire/Ice/Lightning. Letting another job take up the three elements White Mages were using, especially when they're likely to be more important thematically, isn't a big deal.

As far as how it impacts the lore, it really doesn't. White Mages way back when in the War of the Magi are different from White Mages now, and especially different from White Mage WoL. Nothing wrong with him moving away from those roots. It's not like Black Mages are going around dealing with Voidsent after all.

With regards to how arbitrary it is, if they're adding a job to better focus on those themes then it really isn't. While I personally feel they could have had White Mage and Geomancer both as healers others disagree.

Whilst they are different now to what they were in the War of the Magi, White Mage now derives from Conjurer, which is also based around those elements. I just don't see it plausibly dropping those elements as it grows more powerful when it has always been a combination of those elements and light-aspected magic, which has worked great and is something that I and WHM's I know also liked about it. But why change it up now?

And it doesn't stop the potential for a Geomancer, I'd think Geomancer would probably better suit a support magic DPS rather than a healer, personally. But the game already has them in lore and is perfectly plausible to bring them in.

[Velox]

Whilst they are different now to what they were in the War of the Magi, White Mage now derives from Conjurer, which is also based around those elements. I just don't see it plausibly dropping those elements as it grows more powerful when it has always been a combination of those elements and light-aspected magic, which has worked great and is something that I and WHM's I know also liked about it. But why change it up now?

Well if you think back to the lore of White Magic, the reason why it was banned was because in it's purist form, it allows for the direct manipulation of the aether in people. The most powerful White Mages of Amdapor could break down the very existence of the soul with a single spell. This does fall in line with what we've learned about the nature of Light in 4.0 (the complete cessation of aether). I mean, the WoL's soul began to fracture by absorbing Light...imagine the power some of the Amdapori could wield if they had the ability to just completely shatter a soul at will?

If only makes sense that as the WoL grows ever more powerful in White Magic, White Magic would begin to manifest in its purist form and start to greatly offset any past teachings of conjuration. Thus, as the WoL continues to learn White Magic at the expense of Conjury, the more influence White Magic will have on his/her tool kit. Earth/Water/Air will give way to Light.

[Saefinn]

Well if you think back to the lore of White Magic, the reason why it was banned was because in it's purist form, it allows for the direct manipulation of the aether in people. The most powerful White Mages of Amdapor could break down the very existence of the soul with a single spell. This does fall in line with what we've learned about the nature of Light in 4.0 (the complete cessation of aether). I mean, the WoL's soul began to fracture by absorbing Light...imagine the power some of the Amdapori could wield if they had the ability to just completely shatter a soul at will?

If only makes sense that as the WoL grows ever more powerful in White Magic, White Magic would begin to manifest in its purist form and start to greatly offset any past teachings of conjuration. Thus, as the WoL continues to learn White Magic at the expense of Conjury, the more influence White Magic will have on his/her tool kit. Earth/Water/Air will give way to Light.

I'm not sure I agree it's tied to the MSQ, because as I understand, job design isn't based on what is happening to the WoL in the MSQ. With regards to the MSQ this light absorbed by the warrior of light is only temporary and is gone by the end of 5.0. And if there were influences, then I'd expect some consistency over on Red Mage who also makes use of White Magic and I'd expect jobs with elements associated with light would be affected too. As elements associated with light would also benefit.

And we've also established that White Magic isn't just made up of elements relating to light, but also dark. Water and Wind are Umbral (light), whilst Earth is Astral (dark). So I'm not sure White Magic in its purest form would simply be 'Light Magic'. White Magic isn't light magic, it's a combination of Light, Earth, Water and Wind. Nor would I see the Warrior of Light perverting White Magic in the way the Amdapori did or getting on the wrong side of the elemental. Even then, there's no indication the Amdapori got to the point where they were purely using light-aspected magic, as we see mobs associated with Amdapor using other elements associated with White Magic.

Even with all that said, if the warrior of light were getting more powerful as a White Mage from swapping Earth and Wind for Light, it's a little well, anti-climatic. As there's only 20 potency on Stone IV -> Glare. And 60 potency only on the initial hit on Aero II -> Dia. It's a negligible difference. And the animations don't even make up for it in giving the feeling of being powerful.

Wouldn't it also have been cooler if instead of Glare and Dia as upgrades you got Quake and Tornado? And Y'shtola already casts Tornado.

[MirronTulaxia]

Whilst they are different now to what they were in the War of the Magi, White Mage now derives from Conjurer, which is also based around those elements. I just don't see it plausibly dropping those elements as it grows more powerful when it has always been a combination of those elements and light-aspected magic, which has worked great and is something that I and WHM's I know also liked about it. But why change it up now?

And it doesn't stop the potential for a Geomancer, I'd think Geomancer would probably better suit a support magic DPS rather than a healer, personally. But the game already has them in lore and is perfectly plausible to bring them in.

The out of game answer is, presumably, they streamlined aspects of it so they could give it to Geomancer or another concept. In game there isn't any particular reason they have to work the way they do, but there isn't any real reason they have to stick strictly with Conjurer-themed spells either. As for stopping it from adding Geomancer, I've never held that stance, but others do. Whether or not SE does is hard to read at this point. It's quite possible they just wanted White Mage to fit its traditional depictions more, or move it away from being opposite of Black.