Change The Rules For Leaving Dungeons (aka Why People Insta-Quit Castrum Meridianum)

[Fynlar]

Leaving at the beginning doesn't waste anyone's time.

I most certainly have had a lot of my time wasted due to people leaving at the start. Not so much in CM/Prae, because like I said it's rare for me to have entire groups bail just because one or two people leave (the dungeons are piss easy regardless of a couple people leaving, and replacements are usually quick), but in many other cases when one person leaves it tends to cause a chain reaction and the party falls apart before it even starts, which means I just wasted however much time I was in the queue.

And like I said earlier, harsher punishments will just hurt queues. People will just stop queuing for the "annoying" roulettes,

Good, tbh. If a roulette has a 50% chance of giving people something they will just bail on, they shouldn't queue it to begin with.

[Arillyn]

My anecdotal 2 cents - I rarely have people bail on roulettes. It does happen, but again, rarely. And when it's Prae or CM, that spot is filled up really quickly. Also, those 2 dungeons are pretty faceroll now, you don't even need a full party to complete either one.

As for punishing people more for "bailing" an instance - no. It's not against TOS to leave an instance. There already is a lockout before you can re-queue for anything. You have no idea why someone may have bailed. Could it be because they don't want to do that particular instance? Possibly. Could it be because their kid just threw up all over the floor? Yea, could be that too. Unless someone tells you why they are leaving an instance (which they are under no obligation to do) you have no idea why someone left.

[Fynlar]

As for punishing people more for "bailing" an instance - no. It's not against TOS to leave an instance. There already is a lockout before you can re-queue for anything. You have no idea why someone may have bailed. Could it be because they don't want to do that particular instance? Possibly. Could it be because their kid just threw up all over the floor? Yea, could be that too. Unless someone tells you why they are leaving an instance (which they are under no obligation to do) you have no idea why someone left.

Let's face it, when they accept a queue, see what the dungeon is, and then immediately leave, it's pretty damn obvious why they did in the vast majority of cases.

If you think it's equally likely that their kid puked at that exact moment (and then had the time to leave the dungeon but not bother to say why), I'm sure someone else here has a cheap bridge they'd like to sell you. I used to have some, but they're all sold out.

[JohnSpawnVFX]

The people going "They have slighted me by using a function provided by the developers. SE, punish them!" could use the bridges more.

[Sylve]

The people going "They have slighted me by using a function provided by the developers. SE, punish them!" could use the bridges more.

There is a rather large divide between someone queueing for MSQ Roulette, loading in and suddenly being called away by an emergency, apologizing to the party and explaining why they need to leave and players queueing for MSQ Roulette with the explicit intent to abandon the other 7 people in the dungeon if the dice gives them the one they feel is less 'worth' their time.

One of those things is an unfortunate fact of life, the other is deliberately screwing over 7 other people.

This community also likes to rage at and vote kick Tanks for not mass pulling and Healers for not DPSing for the horrific crime of making a Dungeon take slightly longer to complete.

We once had the ability to withdraw from a popped Queue at no cost and no penalty for leaving a dungeon early.
Then people abused it to the point where penalties were necessary to stop people constantly screwing over parties. And now here we are. Requesting harsher penalties because people continue to abuse withdrawls and abandon runs with no regard for the rest of the party.

[Arillyn]

Let's face it, when they accept a queue, see what the dungeon is, and then immediately leave, it's pretty damn obvious why they did in the vast majority of cases.

If you think it's equally likely that their kid puked at that exact moment (and then had the time to leave the dungeon but not bother to say why), I'm sure someone else here has a cheap bridge they'd like to sell you. I used to have some, but they're all sold out.

I have legit had to leave like 30 seconds into dungeons I queued for because something unexpected has happened in my home with my family. Does it happen often? No. But I have had to leave like that a handful of times over the years I've played. It does happen.

Besides that, if someone queues and gets something they really don't want to do and leave - they have the right to do that. They take the penalty and leave. Again, not against TOS.

As an aside, I have also queued into aurum vale before (during HW days) with a tank who was wearing no gear above lvl 20 and the whm wasn't much better (my guess is they were a duo that queued together). I took my penalty and noped out of there first thing. Does that happen often? I never had it happen before or since, but I wasn't going to waste my time in that dungeon with severely undergeared tank & healer.

People can leave an instance for any reason at all. Does it suck when it happens? Sure and yes some people leave because they got an instance they just don't want to do for whatever reason. And some people leave because of who they got put in there with (see my Aurum Vale incident above). Point is, there is already a penalty in place for it. Nothing more needs to be added.

We once had the ability to withdraw from a popped Queue at no cost and no penalty for leaving a dungeon early.
Then people abused it to the point where penalties were necessary to stop people constantly screwing over parties. And now here we are. Requesting harsher penalties because people continue to abuse withdrawls and abandon runs with no regard for the rest of the party.

The abuse was when tanks weren't getting their in-progress queues so they would withdraw and then re-queue immediately. That's why the penalty was put in place. People couldn't even get IN an instance because tanks were doing that. Once that penalty was put in place tanks for the most part just sucked it up and played whatever they got. Harsher penalties aren't needed IMO. Again - you don't even need 7 people to complete the MSQs, but I've never had someone leave and not be replaced almost immediately in those when it has happened.

[JohnSpawnVFX]

There is a rather large divide between someone queueing for MSQ Roulette, loading in and suddenly being called away by an emergency, apologizing to the party and explaining why they need to leave and players queueing for MSQ Roulette with the explicit intent to abandon the other 7 people in the dungeon if the dice gives them the one they feel is less 'worth' their time.

One of those things is an unfortunate fact of life, the other is deliberately screwing over 7 other people.

This community also likes to rage at and vote kick Tanks for not mass pulling and Healers for not DPSing for the horrific crime of making a Dungeon take slightly longer to complete.

We once had the ability to withdraw from a popped Queue at no cost and no penalty for leaving a dungeon early.
Then people abused it to the point where penalties were necessary to stop people constantly screwing over parties. And now here we are. Requesting harsher penalties because people continue to abuse withdrawls and abandon runs with no regard for the rest of the party.

No one's screwing over anyone. Party can be replenished anytime. If anyone else decides to leave too, that's their right and prerogative too.

Leaving at any time isn't against the ToS. No one's being attacked or harassed, no one's having their gameplay being interfered with. The only "victims" here are people choosing to be offended.

[Kuroka]

I have legit had to leave like 30 seconds into dungeons I queued for because something unexpected has happened in my home with my family.

Yes and did you settle that and return after less then 5 min? Or 20? I hope it all went well as i know sometimes life happens, but usually that doesnt take just a few min...


Its not about ToS its about considering "do i wanna run a lv 50 dungoen or do i rather skip the roulett?" -I got a Fc Member who didnt do any lv 50 dungeons since like min HW xD

Most times if you start with "sry smt came up i need a min" ppl are fine. If your house is burning down, you wont logg within the next 30 min anyways. (i had my mother setting an Oven on fire... shit happens)

Its about not even trying, not even giving ppl a chance just bc "eh i dont like this dungeon".

I got so much stuff i really hate, like i EVERY TIME i think "ah i could tank a level roulett" I end up in Don Mheg, which i hate with passion. I still do it, even more if theres a Bonus. I if get omega, in progress for 20 min, I try my best and dont insta leave, same if there were wipes on Eden... heck i had E7 runs, i literally wanted to cry xD

I get it on Castrum If youd randomly get it on mentor roulett and dont have that much time, but not if you qued for it directly. No Duty is that long, you should always at least try...

[Arillyn]

Yes and did you settle that and return after less then 5 min? Or 20? I hope it all went well as i know sometimes life happens, but usually that doesnt take just a few min...


Its not about ToS its about considering "do i wanna run a lv 50 dungoen or do i rather skip the roulett?" -I got a Fc Member who didnt do any lv 50 dungeons since like min HW xD

Most times if you start with "sry smt came up i need a min" ppl are fine. If your house is burning down, you wont logg within the next 30 min anyways. (i had my mother setting an Oven on fire... shit happens)

Its about not even trying, not even giving ppl a chance just bc "eh i dont like this dungeon".

I got so much stuff i really hate, like i EVERY TIME i think "ah i could tank a level roulett" I end up in Don Mheg, which i hate with passion. I still do it, even more if theres a Bonus. I if get omega, in progress for 20 min, I try my best and dont insta leave, same if there were wipes on Eden... heck i had E7 runs, i literally wanted to cry xD

I get it on Castrum If youd randomly get it on mentor roulett and dont have that much time, but not if you qued for it directly. No Duty is that long, you should always at least try...

I personally don't leave things I've queued for unless I have a dire emergency (has happened like I said a handful of times where I knew I wouldn't be able to solve it and come back to the dungeon) or like that aurum vale incident. I THINK I told the groups I had an emergency when I did before I had to leave... can't remember honestly though. They were legit emergencies so I was moving fast.

If I don't have time to do something, I don't queue for it.

But I just don't think this warrants more penalties. If people want to leave for whatever reason, they can. I would rather someone bail in CM at the start so they can be replaced. I don't want to listen to them whine the whole way through.

[Fynlar]

People can leave an instance for any reason at all. Does it suck when it happens? Sure and yes some people leave because they got an instance they just don't want to do for whatever reason. And some people leave because of who they got put in there with (see my Aurum Vale incident above). Point is, there is already a penalty in place for it. Nothing more needs to be added.

Given that it doesn't really discourage anyone from leaving, and in the rare event that it does they just wait there to be kicked instead to bypass it, I would disagree and say there either isn't enough of a penalty in place or that the wrong approach is being taken. The whole point of there being a penalty is for it to be a deterrent from potentially disruptive behavior (i.e. bailing on your group). If it's not a deterrent (let's face it; it isn't), then it should be reevaluated.