Raiding is becoming less and less optional

[Iscah]

I feel like this thread will be necro’d in a few years when raiding has become mandatory as part of the MSQ. And I don’t mean some old raid, but a current raid.

So, for those of you reading in this future, I told you so.

Perhaps.

Or perhaps you'll look at it when you've played CT to get through to the next part of the MSQ, and think "why was I even worried?"

As I said before in this thread, to eliminate semantics, a raid is defined as anything that’s under the Raid tab in Duty Finder regardless of how you personally might define it.

It is SE’s definition. Even if it’s faceroll easy.

You know what's also in the Duty Finder besides the "raid tab" next to the dungeon tab? The Raid Finder that's split off into an entirely different section to let raiders access and practice the high-level hard content.

Not even current normal-mode raids go in there.

(I'm also not entirely certain, but I think current EX trials do get put in that section. Can someone confirm that?)

[Avidria]

But in this case, it is. Make raids not part of the MSQ. Make it a sub-chain like the Crystal Tower, and how they've done for almost/if not all of them.

Some people just don't like grouping. I LOVE grouping, and it sucks having people who have 0 interest in it in my group. If people don't want to be involved in that content, then why are we trying to force them? Imo, it just ruins the fun for both sides.

Grouping is already required for the MSQ. It always has been. We've always been required to do dungeons and trials. And yeah, for some, that's gonna suck. I have a good friend who quit months ago because of it. I myself got irritated at times because the queues were long and some of the dungeons themselves, frankly, sucked.

I wouldn't be opposed to there being a solo story version, but I'm guessing that's a whole lot more dev time than they're evidently willing to put in for this. The easy solution on their end is to just require the content that already exists.

[Lium]

This game's categorization of "raids" is fucking retarded and extremely confusing. Let me break this down for you. Crystal Tower, Mhach, Return to Ivalice, and YoRHa: Dark Apocalypse are called ALLIANCE RAIDS. Alliance Raids are easy, casual 24-man raids that take about 30-60 minutes to clear depending on the group. These are for casual players.

The Binding Coil of Bahamut (Normal/Savage), Alexander (Savage), Omega (Savage), Eden (Savage), Unending Coil of Bahamut (Ultimate), The Weapon's Refrain (Ultimate), and The Epic of Alexander (Ultimate): These are the game's hardcore raids. These will NEVER be mandatory. They consist of 8-man parties that face extremely tight mechanics and dps checks for the game's rarest loot. All the Normal versions of these raids, with the exception of The Binding Coil of Bahamut, are casual content.

Which by the way, as an aside, Bahamut is a main reason I always laugh at people who say this game is too easy. I played WoW for 12 years and I never remembered a single raid in that game more challenging than T9. Even at level 80 in 480+ gear, it’s very difficult to solo because of unavoidable instakill mechanics. Or it’s avoidable in a very tight window.

Hell, dungeons in this game expect more of you than anything in WoW ever did. Again, because pretty much everything in FFXIV from 50 on up, has instakill mechanics. Dungeons like Cutter’s Cry and Pharos Sirius spring to mind. There are no low level dungeons like that anywhere in WoW. At least when I played.

The only exception to this was Cataclysm. And everyone complained it was too hard.

[Klaleara]

Grouping is already required for the MSQ. It always has been. We've always been required to do dungeons and trials. And yeah, for some, that's gonna suck. I have a good friend who quit months ago because of it. I myself got irritated at times because the queues were long and some of the dungeons themselves, frankly, sucked.

I wouldn't be opposed to there being a solo story version, but I'm guessing that's a whole lot more dev time than they're evidently willing to put in for this. The easy solution on their end is to just require the content that already exists.

I realized this after I said it. Remembered that the roulette for the MSQ is always that insanely long raid that isn't even entertaining. Basically why I never roulette MSQ. So my apologies for my idiotic reply.

Best solution, would be able to skip it, and let an NPC summarize what happens. I feel like it wouldn't take long for the devs to implement such a thing.

[Avatre]

None of the 24-man alliance raids are challenging...if you're paying even half attention to it. YoRHa for example, you just need to watch the animations for one of the boss since his attacks are all the same name. Oh, he's raising one fist and it's on fire...better move to the other side of the platform. Oh, no he has both raised up above, lets get to the front and be near the middle line. Both are to the sides now? Best get back and to the sides.

99% of mechanics in the alliance raids you have seen before, the rest of it...if you can't tell what will happen based on the name(Dual Side, or even Front and Back...just as an example) then you might be playing a game with too much(not really honestly) going on at once.

[Iscah]

Best solution, would be able to skip it, and let an NPC summarize what happens. I feel like it wouldn't take long for the devs to implement such a thing.

I don't think they're going to implement something like that any more than they would let you skip over MSQ in the same way.

A character can't tell you about "what happens" in CT after the fact, because it has to happen to you, or the underlying plot of Shadowbringers doesn't make sense.

It's ultimately story content in a story-driven RPG. I personally liked it - and a certain character in it! - even when it was just a side story and not MSQ-relevant, so I was rather delighted when it all came back into play.

Just think of it as an additional chapter of MSQ with some new dungeons. That's essentially what it is now, if it's mandatory, and it's really not much different to that in the end. Run through corridors, kill monsters, fight bosses with some mechanics that might catch you out as a first-time player, but nobody much will care and the team will carry you through. Then you don't need to go near the instances ever again, and you'll have a much better appreciation of some key bits of Shadowbringers' story.

[Klaleara]

I don't think they're going to implement something like that any more than they would let you skip over MSQ in the same way.

But you can skip the MSQ...

[Iscah]

But you can skip the MSQ...

If you want to pay for it? And presumably this means at some stage paying for some degree of MSQ skip (whether it's the ARR skip or eventual ShB skip) will include automatic completion of CT, just like it currently includes the initially-optional hard mode primals that get enforced before you can progress in 2.5.

In any case, you can't skip Shadowbringers MSQ at this point in time. If CT was a new dungeon and MSQ story segment added with 5.3 you'd have no choice but to go through it.

But as I said earlier, you really should at least play the introductory quests and attempt the Labyrinth of the Ancients before deciding that you dislike it enough to pay to skip it.

[Khalithar]

I wouldn't be opposed to there being a solo story version, but I'm guessing that's a whole lot more dev time than they're evidently willing to put in for this. The easy solution on their end is to just require the content that already exists.

I've been thinking about this for a while actually and what they might do. Now, I can say with certainty that the chances of them adding solo story versions are actually not unlikely because of one specific addition: the Trust system. With that you were able to do all of the MSQ required 4man dungeons with NPC's without any queue times at all at your own pace, but for the 8mans you still needed to do that with people.

But just look at what they added for the relic trial, an 8man boss where it was you and 7 NPC's. Taking this in to account, we could reach the point where they will allow us to start using the Trust system for normal mode content whether it be 4man or 8man. Now I actually ignored the Trust system leveling through ShB simply because I always level Paladin first so my queue times were never an issue, but for DPS mains I could easily see the appeal of doing this.

[basketofseals]

Which by the way, as an aside, Bahamut is a main reason I always laugh at people who say this game is too easy. I played WoW for 12 years and I never remembered a single raid in that game more challenging than T9. Even at level 80 in 480+ gear, it’s very difficult to solo because of unavoidable instakill mechanics. Or it’s avoidable in a very tight window.

Hell, dungeons in this game expect more of you than anything in WoW ever did. Again, because pretty much everything in FFXIV from 50 on up, has instakill mechanics. Dungeons like Cutter’s Cry and Pharos Sirius spring to mind. There are no low level dungeons like that anywhere in WoW. At least when I played.

The only exception to this was Cataclysm. And everyone complained it was too hard.

What instakill mechanics lol? Being hit into the wall?