It's time (Option to Hide other players Glamour)

[SamRF]

In think context matters, and with the internet context and meanings change quickly in terms of every day speech. No one should have to apologize for using a word in a different context. Ran into this a lot when people use sperg in discord when they are referring to another person's actions. Then they apologize because I am on the spectrum, and did not mean to offend. No offense was meant people should just move on. Same thing with heated gamer moments and people say things they do not mean. People take far too much offense over words without looking at the context.

Sure one may feel offended but if the intent was not to offend then by no means should one expect or even should apologize for the action unless they personally want to.

Well.. I'm not offended, why would I be? Not sure if anyone's really offended, it was just a strange word to use in a touchy subject (children looking creatures). Not touchy because it can easily offend someone but rather because it can easily get into unethical territory.

The presumed intent wouldn't have been to offend anyone but rather encourage extremely unethical behavior. This is different than simply saying something offensive, for which I agree intention is usually all that matters there.

[Theodric]

Well, this thread took a pretty strange turn.

[Halivel]

Not surprising one, though.

[Eldevern]

What people call "normal" is just an average, we all are weird for someone

[Awha]

I do not believe I said you personally were offended but clearly it did bother you enough to point it out and make the claim they should simply apologize and move on.

Also let us be real in the end what one find strange or unethical do not always align. For one person that finds it objectionable or offensive sure it could lead to unethical territory only if the person in question find it as such. Just goes back to this entire thread people are against the idea because of their own emotional or personal perspective on the matter which is normal we are humans, but if we look past our own biases towards the subject and look at it from the scope of no dubious intent the idea does not seem all that bad. It only becomes troublesome when we interject our own feelings. Akin to dps meters, they inheritly do not lead to anything negative it is up to how it is used and if the person that was subject to it takes offense.

It is a two way street. At least this is how I view it.

[LunaJoy]

"And if it didn't impact people we wouldn't have over 200 pages of people going back and forth."

It’s not indicative of how the community feels as a whole when it’s the same 10 or 20 people arguing back and fourth for 220+ Pages.


Personally, I find the overall idea pretentious and presumptuous. It’s not the other person’s problem that you don’t like what they’re wearing; it’s yours. If the devs want to placate that kind of narrow thought process then I think they’re hovering into dangerous territory of a lot of people being offended, not to mention the fact that it’s a colossal waste of resources. If they’re going to do anything glamour related in game, give me more plates and spaces in my glamour dresser.

[Theodric]

Personally, as a gay guy, I don't like the idea of everybody being held hostage and denied access to a client side feature because some players are uncomfortable with the idea of their character not looking exactly as they desire on the screen of a stranger. I don't want to come across as callous but at the end of the day FFXIV is a video game. It isn't a platform for complicated political and social issues - especially when it attracts many different people from many varied backgrounds, cultures and belief systems. A common mistake in this thread seems to be assuming that everybody is on the same page in regards to self expression in-game being super important. Clearly that isn't the case based on the mixed responses to this thread.

I don't see my character as an extension of myself. If someone insulted him or his glamour, it wouldn't be taken personally because I don't see him as me. If other people want to see their character as themselves? Cool, go ahead - but I don't think that means other players should be denied the ability to tweak the game to their liking to a reasonable degree. At the end of the day, it's just a setting and the vast majority of players are just 'there' and aren't going to be interacting with each other to any significant degree.

[Canada_bangs]

Personally, as a gay guy, I don't like the idea of everybody being held hostage and denied access to a client side feature because some players are uncomfortable with the idea of their character not looking exactly as they desire on the screen of a stranger. I don't want to come across as callous but at the end of the day FFXIV is a video game. It isn't a platform for complicated political and social issues - especially when it attracts many different people from many varied backgrounds, cultures and belief systems. A common mistake in this thread seems to be assuming that everybody is on the same page in regards to self expression in-game being super important. Clearly that isn't the case based on the mixed responses to this thread.

I don't see my character as an extension of myself. If someone insulted him or his glamour, it wouldn't be taken personally because I don't see him as me. If other people want to see their character as themselves? Cool, go ahead - but I don't think that means other players should be denied the ability to tweak the game to their liking to a reasonable degree. At the end of the day, it's just a setting and the vast majority of players are just 'there' and aren't going to be interacting with each other to any significant degree.

To be fair, blame the TC because they were the ones bringing social issues into it with their line in their first post about "men in dresses" So people bringing these things up is fair game.

[Klb600]

It’s not indicative of how the community feels as a whole when it’s the same 10 or 20 people arguing back and fourth for 220+ Pages.

Can quote properly, it is easy take this quote out of context due to the long length of the thread.

1) if that's true, then it goes both ways.

2) Yes you can see similar faces here and there but if you go back far enough you can clearly see different faces hoping in and out, hell I am one of the newer faces in the latter portion.

3)Your point? Yes it cant express every individual , but its an aggregate and that's all we have to work with..

Personally, I find the overall idea pretentious and presumptuous. It’s not the other person’s problem that you don’t like what they’re wearing; it’s yours. If the devs want to placate that kind of narrow thought process then I think they’re hovering into dangerous territory of a lot of people being offended.

That's quite an opinion, many would disagree. The character isn't you, your rights to self expression does not permeate into the game, and I am not beholden to your character. People have different views on how they enjoy a video game, and this is just one optional way, that does not effect you..

not to mention the fact that it’s a colossal waste of resources. If they’re going to do anything glamour related in game, give me more plates and spaces in my glamour dresser.

Already considered nobody disagrees with this proposition, the "self expression" argument just doesn't hold water when we are discussing a video game that is mutable and capable of client side features.

[ArcaviusGreyashe]

Where this LGBTQ matters is false it is to consider it only applies to them and there should be an exception for them.

There are a lot of words, critics and blame all people hear since childhood for a reason or another. LGBTQ? What about people who grow in a conservative religious family with *whatever* other restrictions (about dressing or other things) and would love to get ride of them?

To be free is not a right but a responsability, this is why western countries have that hard time to understand some other claimings in other countries or fail to make a fair symetric.

One country : people ask to get ride on some restrictions.
Western country : they are right, you must lift this restrictions

And here comes the contradiction :

Western countries, inside their walls: people here have the right to protect... the said restriction some people ouside want to lift.

Double standard and double language, all the time.

Militancies of all kind have their own biais but refuse to see them. That's all the problem. Since twenty years I listen them carefully now, I can't say anything else than to disagree with militancies, none of them shows the hinsight they believe and pretend to have.

When some LGBTQ support some religious biais, targeting, in fact only one "enemy", the 40y.o. white man while the said religious and the LGBTQ have no common values... sorry but I step outside.

You want to force people to see them the same way some people were forcing them to hide. Now there is a way to allow everyone to do as it please, client side, you refuse it? When on earth is it fair? They can do what they want in the game and you refuse other to do what they want client-side?

And you know, I don't find the bunny or the frog fun, it goes a bit too far for my tastes.

I don't consider myself a part of the LGBTQ "militancy", to be honest. Just a random person going through their life, and trying to make everyone feel safe and appreciated. I don't even know, to be fair, what most of your message is about (what religion, for example ?).

My only take is that some people are hated or despised for what they are, and that's never a good thing, and that you can't make people evolve without having them confronted with what they fear. Then again : It's not the same pain. Having to see, once a week, probably less, a queer people, or living as a queer.

Then again, you're free to do whatever you want. I'm just telling you why I think giving the opportunity to hide glamours is never a social progress.

If you don't mind, though, I'm just wondering why you suddenly changed completely your approach on things after my last message ? You sounded like you were really open, and all of a sudden, you seemed much less keen to discuss. I'm not saying you insulted me or whatever, just genuinely curious of what made you change your behaviour.