What I would like to see in future monk!

[Ramura_Sono]

...

So, "The outcry of "But they've tried so many different ways to fix it!" since ARR is disingenuous."? But pointing to a version of the game that existed more than a decade ago and played vastly differently as an example of fist stances working isn't?

"The fist stances totally worked in this failed version of the game!" is not a good argument for keeping the fist stances. The devs have had 7 years to make the fist stances into something meaningful or with actual choice, elected to do nothing for the first 4 , and then when they actually made attempts, failed, and then failed to learn from the first failure. When the choices are 'do nothing', 'failure due to not learning from previous failures' and 'success' it's hardly surprising people don't want to give the devs another attempt. Being stuck with bloat fist stances for another two years because the devs once again failed to put thought into making them meaningful or an actual choice isn't something I and many others are willing to take a chance on. Especially when we seem to be eternally on the bottom of the priority list for dev attention.

Can the fist stances be made to be interesting and facilitate actual choices? Yes
Do I trust the Devs to put in the time, thought, and effort to successfully, purposely create such a thing? No. Especially not without it resulting in other issues being left unresolved or creating whole new issues.

[wereotter]

So, "The outcry of "But they've tried so many different ways to fix it!" since ARR is disingenuous."? But pointing to a version of the game that existed more than a decade ago and played vastly differently as an example of fist stances working isn't?

Nit picking here... but you realize the game from 1.0 to now isn't more than a decade old, yes?

1.0 launched in September 2010 and ARR came out in August 2013. So none of these systems are "more than a decade ago"

[Shurrikhan]

So, "The outcry of "But they've tried so many different ways to fix it!" since ARR is disingenuous."? But pointing to a version of the game that existed more than a decade ago and played vastly differently as an example of fist stances working isn't?

The idea has been there have been multiple attempts since ARR to fix stances, and thus there must not be any way to fix it. There have been no further adjustments to the stances themselves since ARR except to adjust the % damage on Fists of Fire, which they'd already left as the 24/7 stance, equitable to a mere damage aura buff to Monk when they don't want to bother with individual potency buffs.

At the same time, the only other take on stances, by which Fists of Wind affected all matters of speed (Attack, Recast, and Movement), accomplished the very things people are adamant can never be accomplished.

When you call something singular (ARR-ShB's version of stance) multiple, and ignore the literal half of all other versions (pre-ARR) to make your point, yeah, that's disingenuous.

There's nothing about the game state that allowed for FoW at that time to exist as a combat stance competing with FoF. It was the simple fact that it offered offensive benefits comparable to FoF.

Version 1: Attack, Recast, and Movement Speed. (This therefore has benefit for oGCDs--especially those such as Steel Peak, which would otherwise fall out of sync with raid buffs, allows for differing rotations, and is optimal over FoF during low-potency GCDs.)
Version 2: Movement Speed.

See the difference?

All these expansions since ARR, and they've never once tried to tie offensive benefits to FoW or FoE themselves, only to either lock GL generation or GL states to it. And we wonder why it fails to compete with the only stance with offensive benefits... for offense?

:: Also, this game hasn't been out for a decade yet, even if counting from 1.x. Heck, since ARR it's been fewer than 7 years.