Ranged DPS jobs - disappointing?

[bernkz]

Hey all, recently came from WOW and played many other MMOs. Love FF14! However, 2 weeks into the game and I realised that all ranged DPS jobs kinda suck and are at the bottom of almost all DPS lists. Which is very sad since I love ranged DPS classes...

I am leveling a bard right now, been thinking to switch to a machinist as it seems like it could be easier to play. As I'm not sure I dig songs + dots management, esp in AOE situations I get quite stressed already. Would machinist be more fun with almost as good DPS as meta jobs if executed properly? I have a very low ping.

I've read a lot on the forum already, watched a lot of Youtube videos. And seen that all content can be cleared with all the classes... Which is great, but it really bothers me to see that tanks sometimes deal more DPS than I do in the instanced content... Especially on the single target. And no matter how hard I do my rotations (get quite stressed trying really hard) and barely beat a tank, sometimes below. No way I can compete with summoners or samurai. Sad. Will bard dps increase as I continue to level or should I drop and switch to machinist?

I know I could reach end content with either of the classes and I can get into parties anyway but being a bottom of the barrel every time is not cool and makes me not like the game so much. Sad, as otherwise I really love the game. I'm feeling like I'm being pushed onto the melee side if I want to deal good physical DPS. Spellcasters never interest me. So here we are...

Ultimately, I'm thinking if it's worth continuing with the bard or level machinist or force a melee class on myself. I don't want to find another mmo, not yet anyway lol.

What are your thoughts?

[Burningskull]

Ranged DPS have low personal DPS cause they give raid wide DPS. Personally I'd rather they remove raid DPS and just focus on every job boosting their own damage, and make every job feel different to play. That way you could take w/e job you wanted. Granted you can still take w/e job you want, you just get punished for not having one of all the roles which is bs imo.

[SamRF]

Ranged DPS have low personal DPS cause they give raid wide DPS. Personally I'd rather they remove raid DPS and just focus on every job boosting their own damage, and make every job feel different to play. That way you could take w/e job you wanted. Granted you can still take w/e job you want, you just get punished for not having one of all the roles which is bs imo.

They are still bottom tier for Raid DPS (personal dps + buff contribution).

[SamRF]

Even though Machinist seems better dps wise, I'd take Bard over Machinist any day cause it's imo a very fun job to play, especially compared to machinist which lacks complexity imo.

[Connor]

I can definitely see why Bard would feel awful to play at lower levels. As far as I’m aware it’s the only job that has an entire job gauge that literally doesn’t exist until level 80, since you don’t have access to Song Gauge until you learn Apex Arrow.

Personally I’d say maybe try and stick with it until level 80 and see how it feels when you have full access to what the job offers. Though that’s easier said than done if you aren’t enjoying it

In terms of where Bard will be in future it’s hard to say.

If their personal DPS is raised they have to take a hit to their already limited support capabilities.

If they get their support capabilities raised they become an immediate guaranteed raid spot and dps balance is broken.

If they try to balance personal DPS with raid contribution, then we’re likely going to fall into the same spot as we’re in currently, which is the ‘meh’ spot; you can’t fail with this job, but it’s like, ‘meh, can’t we get anything better lol’.

Given what devs have done before it’s likely that Bard will just receive overall DPS potency increases. Whether or not that will serve to make the job feel less ‘meh’ relative to others, i think we can only wait and see what happens when 5.3 drops to find out

[Kabooa]

Machinist needs a thing or two to expand its depth, but it's not without enjoyment.

[Claire_Pendragon]

thoughts?

Since physical ranged can "run and shoot" unlike casters, and dont have positionals, unlike melee, i dont see SE raising their personal dmg and total rDPS to equal that of the other 2. The idea is that when boss mechanics are going off, the lost GCDs from not hitting the boss as melee or caster "make up" for the DPS physical ranged maintain. Of course once u do the fight enough, and minimize downtime, your uptime is almost always keeping the GCD going.
People used to run all BRD only groups, due to making it so easy to dodge enemy AoEs and do mechanics. So SE nerfed BRDs (and MCH) into having cast bars for HW. (Evenetually this was removed, since ppl hate it. and because SE just did it wrong, but thats a different topic) The fact BRD had less personal DPS was also because ppl stacked ARC in 1.0 for basically the same reason. So when jobs came out, ARC didnt get the DPS boost everyone else did, and instead became a support. (This sorta worked, but 2.0 brought BRD stacking back as i mentioned)

Overall, physical ranged are inherently broken, and need something to tone them down. Most games just nerf their DPS, but we all know why thats not a reasonable fix to a DPS role.
What will SE do? idk. ATM having a physical ranged is a 1% DPS increase based on the party stat bonus, so they are still worth bringing, but having 2 is only ok if your melee/casters are struggling too much on maintaining uptime.
Its not a horrible system, but still needs some work.

Methods I could see as possibilities, but seem too simplistic for an answer;
(1) Decreased GCD. The faster youre firing off GCDs, the busier you are, and the less focus you have. (Since melee already have this, it wouldnt change much for balance, dunno why ranged doesnt have this by default)
(2) More multitasking. BRDs multitasking is roughly the right idea, but they keep making it easier with less multitasking. (Look at MCH and now DNC, and their straight forward playstyles)
(3) Give them 0.5 second cast bars. low enough to weave oGCDs, low enough to give them mobility, but high enough to force them to "stop and go". (They still need more multitasking than casters/melee to be ballanced)
(4) Distance positionals. (This seems kinda meh out of the 4 imo.)

[Vendalwind]

Yes range are weak and need a buff.

But if you are getting outdone by a tank you are definately doing something wrong.

[Claire_Pendragon]

But if you are getting outdone by a tank you are definately doing something wrong.

Not inherently true. (Though it could be) The OP is Lv45. Which is the level range BRD suffers a decent amount. My friends BRD and PLD were both equal in iLv, and just basic auto attacks on BRD were lower dmg than the PLDs auto attacks. (at Lv50)

The level range for BRD atm isnt so great, plus if the tank was syncing down with much higher iLv gear, and they are still in some basic leveling gear thats mismatched, its easy to see happen.
(Another example was in 2.0, as WHM, stone2 did so much unreasonable dmg, I easily out DPSed every DPS in the game in copperbell and most DPS in halatali. Sometimes u have more or less options available for your job, based on the level range. Just as RDM, SAM, and DNC have broken powerful potencies at low levels, since they just werent balanced for low level content.)

[bernkz]

Even though Machinist seems better dps wise, I'd take Bard over Machinist any day cause it's imo a very fun job to play, especially compared to machinist which lacks complexity imo.

Machinist needs a thing or two to expand its depth, but it's not without enjoyment.

Alright, I'm thinking maybe I would rather stick with bard as others suggested higher level will be better.. Thanks!

I can definitely see why Bard would feel awful to play at lower levels. As far as I’m aware it’s the only job that has an entire job gauge that literally doesn’t exist until level 80, since you don’t have access to Song Gauge until you learn Apex Arrow.

Thanks for this, I see you main bard, maybe I'll just do that cuz I really don't want to restart a class, it would be such a waste of time xD

Overall, physical ranged are inherently broken, and need something to tone them down. Most games just nerf their DPS, but we all know why thats not a reasonable fix to a DPS role.
What will SE do? idk.

I don't expect it to be on the same level as say top DPS classes but could be slightly below and not the very bottom... Idk, it's just sad to see I'm the worst damage. Casters are also ranged aren't they? (No experience playing one so not sure). Like if a Summoner can shoot from a range, resurrect people, have tons of utilities and other things, can bard not come close with dps? Idk, would be nice to see some sort of boost, appreciate the list tho!

Yes range are weak and need a buff.

But if you are getting outdone by a tank you are definately doing something wrong.

True, I focused too much on my dps bar and not the rotation, I've been running instances all day today and often times with AOE especially I had some really good damage. But still, I feel on a single target there's a lot of room to improve.

Not inherently true. (Though it could be) The OP is Lv45. Which is the level range BRD suffers a decent amount. My friends BRD and PLD were both equal in iLv, and just basic auto attacks on BRD were lower dmg than the PLDs auto attacks. (at Lv50)

I think I will stick with bard to lvl 80 as suggested. I still like the class just sad with the lowest dps in the group often... But ater more research and advice I see higher level bards with good rotations can output some serious damage.

Ranged DPS have low personal DPS cause they give raid wide DPS. P

But that's like 1% per song isn't it? that's tiny, no? Especially in dungeons, I guess with 10+ people party it would start to stack up but still, I feel the party-wide dps is so small it's almost not counting...

Thanks all for the replies!