Shadowbringers starting to feel like a budget expansion

[Sora_Oathkeeper]

Of course there is some kind of routine, I'm not the last who somehow feel the need of something really new.

But...

Same game, extensions are predictables, devs are lazy.
Some changes and surprises, people lose their marks and somehow think if they have to learn everything again... they want to do it in a new game, not in the old one that suddenly changes...

That's why some people start to talk we need a whole new game and not just an overhaul. If we have lost the discovery feeling, the only way to get one again is a brand new game. And there's nothing on the market that's doesn't look as some bad WoW copypast (or worst, bad TESO/BDO copypast when it is not an ArcheAge... made worst).

Yeah, I understand, I'm not advocating for a complete overhaul or anything. But I would like to see something more innovative with more innovative rewards that actually requires player engagement. I feel like whenever I'm not in an extreme/savage/ultimate I'm basically zoned out and doing something out of necessity, not because I want to (I'm actually on a break from the boredom now currently), but I think if a game allows you to simply faceroll through ANY kind of content then surely more thought needs to go back into how the developers can actually make something engaging. Whenever a relic grind comes out or a tome grind, I see many times players saying "I just stuck netflix on and set myself to 'follow'" or, "I grinded this content while watching a whole season of 'X'". And that can be said for so much of the game's content. Instead of developing absolutely mindless grinds that require almost 0 thinking capability, why not add something that's not AS grindy but still requires player engagement. At least said player might actually have fun then.

It also baffles me that the developers went above and beyond for feedback by doing constant polls and questionnaires while developing ARR because they knew that feedback was essential in getting the game back on track. But these days there are never any proper feedback mechanisms in place to help devs and players stay in communication. And what we do get is often cherry picked questions in the live letters. When ARR first released, there was often community reps responding to feedback etc. but it's all gone very quiet ever since. A prime example of player feedback falling on deaf ears would be Bard cast times in HW and MNK RoF slowdown. They knew players hated what they'd done to BRD in HW and their response was something very dismissive and that it won't see any changes until next expansion. MCH was also in an awful spot upon release in HW only slightly outdpsing a WAR. They had the audacity to tell players that they were playing it wrong, even though, theorycrafters of all people had already worked out the most efficient way to play the job. Yoshi-P talking about MNK before ShB is the best example though: He admits that players didn't like Riddle of Fire slowdown and that they have taken that feedback on board only for it to still be there on release /facepalm. While also tooting that out of all the jobs that were developed for ShB, he was most proud of what they did with MNK (they didn't actually change anything except give them more niche skills on release).

The communication from the developers and playerbase has just dwindled rapidly since ARR released and it doesn't help that they don't even want to release job changes in preliminary patch notes anymore because of criticism, or as they put it: we don't want players to worry about the numbers until they get to play with the new potencies in game. The truth is that players have been less than okay with how Ranged jobs have been handled this expansion and they simply want to turn a blind eye to the criticism beforehand. I feel like I'm at a point now where the actions of the developers speak louder than words. They can apologize for their mistakes but until they actually learn from said mistakes it doesn't matter. Multiple housing fiascoes, lack of transparency with Race genders, Diadem 1.0 and 2.0, Anemos, Pagos, ishgardian restoration, addon support (they strung players along for years on this one and Summoner Egis). All things that they could have learned from and enabled them to be more open with the playerbase but simply didn't and still aren't. This turned into more of a rant than intended. Sorry.

[Kuroka]

Part of the "Rush" problem isn't so much that people are actively trying to "Rush" content, but that content drips in so slowly that people jump on whatever new thing that is released because they... Actually want to play the game.

Its exactly this, either id rush for relics now or well... unsub till 5.3 in mid july or later and loose my house and fc. sure.

Both above me are 100% right. The chery picked questions for LL, the 0 reactions on lots of problems.

[DBriggs304]

this patch feels like the selfie camera patch in world of warcraft warlords of draenor

No where near that.
At. All.

[Jybril]

At this point I am just waiting for their next MMO, in all honesty. Yes, XIV is still fun, but there's so many things they can't do due to legacy system limitations that it's become depressing, and the game is starting to feel and look dated. I mostly just play for the story these days and even that can be vexing in how you have no real ability to make meaningful choices in the story and are just following a script, which in turn also limits what jobs they're able to implement, because some, like Necromancer, would not be "compatible" with the lore for the protagonist.

I can understand why people complain about the amount of combat content, because between 5.2 and 5.4, i.e. the next patch with raids, there will potentially be more than 8 months. That's a long content drought, particularly if your interest in the relic is very limited. The alliance raids and ex modes are also very quick to clear, so they're not lasting content by any stretch of the imagination.

I'm with you if I may be so honest. I'm waiting for a new FF MMO and wanting one.
A lot of limitations of this game because the combat is so archaic and simplified so badly that it kills them to try
to balance anything or even make fights even a bit interesting. The healer stuff ultimately killed me
from playing the game anymore. I wanna say I subbed 4 times since the release of the expansion.
Twice last year, twice this year and only played like 10 days this year of the subs. I'm only here now because of the of the freebie thing.

With the Corvid thing going, they pushed the next patch to unknown status (and that's fine, health is most important and I hope everyone's staying safe! )
But as Lauront said, from this patch to the next is massive.

Feels like they are taking away more than they are giving out.
I do leave more than I play to begin with, you just get tired of the treadmill and I've been milling it since 2.0.
Just feels worse here because nothing is all that fun.

With that said, 5.0 came out strong with the story, Nier is great! And well...that's all for me I guess.
Story alone won't keep me subbing, sorry to say lol and that is where I feel like they put most their effort in
because it sure wasn't balancing classes or fixing the new races. Almost a year in and the new races are still poopy?

[SDaemon]

this patch feels like the selfie camera patch in world of warcraft warlords of draenor

I played through 6.1 in WoD. 6.1 was infinitely worse than what we've gotten here in 5.2X.

[Eldevern]

...

I'm not only talking for the last relic. One hour or two is fast. I'm talking about a general feeling I have since HW release. I've never imagined people would rush over the MSQ like that. In two days, people were already at the highest level... but they spent the whole night in the game. And after one week, some players were already complaining they had nothing to do.

...

I get the points. Somehow, it gives me some kind of feeling they do things that way to allow to play as PU without behing forced to be part of a FC/statics. There have been a lot of FC/statics dramas since ARR and it probably doesn't go without consequences in the choices made by SE. That's sad because it actually makes people zoned out from some contents. But when we suggest FC contents, people some say "Hell no!".

If we consider Trusts, this game is made to turn solo. Only players interested in Savage or who actually RP need a static or a FC.

Unfortunatly, when people are able to say this kind of things in a MMORPG...:
More social life in the game? "Hey, man, go Second Life, here is not the place."
Actually interesting housing? "Hey may, go play Sims."
We are somehow back is the old meaning of multiplayers, when it was for... eight people.

[SamRF]

- Dungeons: still play the same, they're linear, offer almost 0 challenge at all. It really does feel like the least engaging kind of content at end game.

This imo isn't true for dungeons before lvl 50 and some early lvl 50 ones as well.

All those dungeons either have optional rooms, skippable mobs, interaction with environment or irregular paths. This may seem negligible but it makes a big difference imo for immersion and enjoyment since it's not the same hallway simulator like all the later dungeons are. They have variety in structure.

Said this in other post:

This makes them feel more alive and more like a real adventure that doesn't FEEL that scripted. I know what usually happens is that 90% of the runs just take the more efficient path and skip as much as possible, but it still just feels more satisfying and immersive if you simply know that you have the freedom to do otherwise. It keeps them from feeling too stale.

Really wish they went back to early ARR dungeon design.

[Lersayil]

This imo isn't true for dungeons before lvl 50 and some early lvl 50 ones as well.

All those dungeons either have optional rooms, skippable mobs, interaction with environment or irregular paths. This may seem negligible but it makes a big difference imo for immersion and enjoyment since it's not the same hallway simulator like all the later dungeons are. They have variety in structure.

Said this in other post:


Really wish they went back to early ARR dungeon design.

They threw away that design for a reason. The first time may have been an adventure. Second time slightly less so. By the third time it is either a chore or just noise you skip. Repeat ad nauseam. Its just not possible to make our current dungeons an "adventure" every time, unless we're thinking random generation, which Deep Dungeons did. And even that system has its issues / limitations

[yukiiyuki]

They threw away that design for a reason. The first time may have been an adventure. Second time slightly less so. By the third time it is either a chore or just noise you skip. Repeat ad nauseam. Its just not possible to make our current dungeons an "adventure" every time, unless we're thinking random generation, which Deep Dungeons did. And even that system has its issues / limitations

By your logic everything will be chore in this game after few weeks and they should stop bothering creating something interesting.
I know one secret technique, its called "random", you can use it for boss skills, traps, different mobs packs with abilities that can blew up whole party, secret rooms with additional bosses, choosing what boss to kill first and actual achivements that need cooperation to kill boss with a twist.. And how about actual rewards, gear that can be better than you can grind tomestones on.
Doing same dungeon roulette everyday, pulling wall of mobs killing same boss with same abilities over and over everyday, that's not a chore, right? Or its better because you dont need to waste 40 minutes on it, but rather 13?

[Lersayil]

By your logic everything will be chore in this game after few weeks and they should stop bothering creating something interesting.
I know one secret technique, its called "random", you can use it for boss skills, traps, different mobs packs with abilities that can blew up whole party, secret rooms with additional bosses, choosing what boss to kill first and actual achivements that need cooperation to kill boss with a twist.. And how about actual rewards, gear that can be better than you can grind tomestones on.
Doing same dungeon roulette everyday, pulling wall of mobs killing same boss with same abilities over and over everyday, that's not a chore, right? Or its better because you dont need to waste 40 minutes on it, but rather 13?

Not quite. What I'm saying is, that you cant have "adventure" and repetition at the same time. They are by nature opposites. Random generation also doesn't mesh well with the current dungeon design where they are used as story set pieces.

Random generation has its place in Deep Dungeons. The things you recommend would necessitate a large scale overhaul of not just encounter design, but also item progression. Not saying it can't happen, but personally I won't hold my breath.

But just to clarify: I don't particularly like the current dungeon design, however I can't see any simple way to make them better either.