Is it me or is the Crafting market going to die?

[TemporaryName18052020]

the more ismple it ecomes, the easier it is for everyone to do everyhting and get whatever they want without effort

If I may ask, what is wrong with this happening? Shouldn't the game be more accessible to others so that everyone can enjoy end-game content? Why should you be the one to dictate who gets gear and who gets to play end-game content? You don't really need money in this game but it's still very easy to make it as a crafter. I re-subbed a few weeks 5.2 hit and gear was still selling at around 500k a piece, I dumped the price on most items to around 100k and I was still making a huge profit. I was still making a profit until the relic patch hit and now I'm back to making food 24/7.

There are so many ways for crafters to make money that I don't get what your complaint is about. Make end-game food, it sells almost instantly. Making items for levequest turn-ins, make gear for levels 1-60 for people gearing up or gearing their retainers. Just got to the marketboard and list things by demand. Go to marketboard history and see how quickly items are selling.

I've popped in and out of the game for years and crafting has never been a difficult way to make money. Hell, with Neo-Ish gear I was even having other crafters buying my gear so they could re-list it at a higher price.

[Nandrolone]

If I may ask, what is wrong with this happening? Shouldn't the game be more accessible to others so that everyone can enjoy end-game content? Why should you be the one to dictate who gets gear and who gets to play end-game content? You don't really need money in this game but it's still very easy to make it as a crafter. I re-subbed a few weeks 5.2 hit and gear was still selling at around 500k a piece, I dumped the price on most items to around 100k and I was still making a huge profit. I was still making a profit until the relic patch hit and now I'm back to making food 24/7.

There are so many ways for crafters to make money that I don't get what your complaint is about. Make end-game food, it sells almost instantly. Making items for levequest turn-ins, make gear for levels 1-60 for people gearing up or gearing their retainers. Just got to the marketboard and list things by demand. Go to marketboard history and see how quickly items are selling.

I've popped in and out of the game for years and crafting has never been a difficult way to make money. Hell, with Neo-Ish gear I was even having other crafters buying my gear so they could re-list it at a higher price.

And what is wrong with putting in effort and adding some challenge? Because judging from the expert recipe thread activity while it was still active, I would say effort and challenges are also welcome.

[Liam_Harper]

If I may ask, what is wrong with this happening? Shouldn't the game be more accessible to others so that everyone can enjoy end-game content? Why should you be the one to dictate who gets gear and who gets to play end-game content?

Because what are you leveling towards, gearing, practicing rotations, reading guides, mastering your class or chosen activity ...if when you finally reach that endgame goal it's simply handed over to you without putting any of those skills to use? Done and over just like that. What are you working towards? There's no goal anymore, no prestige, no accomplishments to achieve, nothing. You'll never be a great crafter. There's no such thing now.

As for master recipe gear, you're completely off track if you think being unable to craft it means you cannot enjoy and play endgame content. You normally get PvE combat gear by doing PvE combat. You know, farming tomes, clearing dungeons, beating Nier, beating Eden Normal, beating Varis and Ruby EX, maybe even stepping into Savage. Now? You simply spend peanuts in gil at a MB and bam, you're endgame geared, most of that content is invalidated and you can go back to being afk. How is that great game design? Why does Master Recipe gear need to be handed out free at the expense of our crafter endgame, when DoW/M has so many sources for it?

As for 100k not including mats being "huge profits", it's sad new crafters don't realize just how badly they have it. We really don't care about gil anyway, it's not hard to make, we have plenty. It's crafting itself that we miss.

Once 5.3 hits it will be time to make money again... for like two weeks until the bot makers update their scripts and the people who focused on the story and other content first finish up and move onto crafting.

I predict the gil making window will be less than a week. Neo-Isguardian gear was below 1 mil within 3 days and crashed entirely within the week. They sold very slowly too. The materia markets barely change with patches. We'll have macros up day one for the 5.3 gear.

[Jojoya]

Because what are you leveling towards, gearing, practicing rotations, reading guides, mastering your class or chosen activity ...if when you finally reach that endgame goal it's simply handed over to you without putting any of those skills to use? Done and over just like that. What are you working towards? There's no goal anymore, no prestige, no accomplishments to achieve, nothing. You'll never be a great crafter. There's no such thing now.

Not everyone is after prestige, though. Most are simply trying to have fun and relax after a hard day at work/school/chasing after toddlers, etc.

SE's is in a hard spot of trying to decide what's best for the game. They're not going to be able to make everyone happy.

As for master recipe gear, you're completely off track if you think being unable to craft it means you cannot enjoy and play endgame content. You normally get PvE combat gear by doing PvE combat. You know, farming tomes, clearing dungeons, beating Nier, beating Eden Normal, beating Varis and Ruby EX, maybe even stepping into Savage. Now? You simply spend peanuts in gil at a MB and bam, you're endgame geared, most of that content is invalidated and you can go back to being afk. How is that great game design? Why does Master Recipe gear need to be handed out free at the expense of our crafter endgame, when DoW/M has so many sources for it?

Crafted gear is relevant at 2 points in content - when a new Savage tier is released and players want the pentamelded gear to give them a tiny edge in progression (which lasts about 2 weeks), and when players are going back to farm old Ultimates so they'd again rather get the pentamelded gear available on demand over farming for Savage gear with the relevant ilvl.

Current tier Savage gear will always be superior to the highest ilvl crafted gear. Current tomestone gear will always be superior to the highest ilvl crafted gear. Crafted gear has never invalidated end game gear and never will. At best it's been a temporary shortcut while players farm the best gear. Otherwise it's just a substitute for those not interested in doing the content needed to get the better gear, or for those who want it for glamour.

As for 100k not including mats being "huge profits", it's sad new crafters don't realize just how badly they have it. We really don't care about gil anyway, it's not hard to make, we have plenty. It's crafting itself that we miss.

Let's not pretend that they don't care about the gil. If they didn't, it wouldn't be getting mentioned.

When the post comes down to "I can't sell this item for as much as I used to" it's definitely about the gil.

Sorry if you miss the old crafting. Personally I'm having a blast with Expert. I make time to do Expert each night on top of all the other things I'm doing in game. I groan when I hit that string of 9 Rapid Synthesis failures in a row then sigh with relief I when I still manage to squeeze out a high enough rating to turn in. I boggle when I get those massive strings of good luck so I've got a max rating item in relatively few steps.

I've got long term achievements to work towards. I'm helping to advance the stockpile for my world so we can gradually creep closer to new housing. I'm making lots of scrip I'm using to buy the emotes and other items to give to friends who don't craft or gather, or to even sell on the MB for that gil that crafters allegedly don't care about.

What is it that you find lacking about Expert that it is not retaining your interest?

I predict the gil making window will be less than a week. Neo-Isguardian gear was below 1 mil within 3 days and crashed entirely within the week. They sold very slowly too. The materia markets barely change with patches. We'll have macros up day one for the 5.3 gear.

So it really is about the gil as much as you'd like to believe otherwise.

[Liam_Harper]

You know what, sure. You're right on everything. Eden normal is worth farming every week, no one wants to accomplish anything, Expert is worth grinding the same rotation for 3 months for a single mount and endgame crafters are all just gil obsessed. I get it and that's fine if the current game makes people happy.

I can acknowledge what I really liked about this game is simply dead. The indepth crafting system, class depth, the Hunt with its server community and so on, it's not coming back and there's no point in causing arguments over it. I'll leave it be at that.

[Kabooa]

Not everyone is after prestige, though. Most are simply trying to have fun and relax after a hard day at work/school/chasing after toddlers, etc.

SE's is in a hard spot of trying to decide what's best for the game. They're not going to be able to make everyone happy.

You can't make everyone happy about everything, but you can have something that makes someone happy across every spectrum. They are attempting this, and while most of the time it's a half measure to be expanded later, it's effort expended, and I think it should be applauded.

We won't always get what we want out of it, but someone will.

SE does listen to feedback, however, they understandably, very rarely, ever directly lift ideas. It is bad precedent to actively implement an idea sourced from a user unless it is objectively the best solution, and even then, multiple people will come to the same conclusion about how to do something without interacting with each other. Much as people like to harp "SE doesn't listen", what they really mean is "SE doesn't listen to me". We can take a journey down the patch notes and directly point out every time feedback has been taken into consideration and implemented.

I like the expert system and would like to see it come into Mainline crafting, so long as the granular reward system is also brought. The granular reward, done well, alleviates much of the concerns that surround Expert crafting, as well as smart picking of what recipes actually utilize it.

And I personally think not connecting it to the Relic system was a bad choice - Optional grind tie in for a shiny reward is exactly the kind of thing to encourage people to give it a try and keep at it.