Shadowbringers starting to feel like a budget expansion

[Beardo04]

for Eureka comment saying it wasn't great. Personally I think the idea was fantastic even tho I wasn't able to do much of it. It gave ppl a long term objective which imo there's not enough in this game unfortunately. I'm hoping they provide something close to that idea.

[WhyAmIHere]

-snip-

My point about tone isn't whether or not you've got points to make, buckaroo, it's a point i brought up to make yourself be viewed more seriously. If you start a debate with someone and the *FIRST* thing you do is flagrantly disregard their opinion you've failed the debate. How thick or thin your skin is claimed to be doesn't matter, bucko.Yes, this forum is chuck full of contradictory arguments... because it's not an echo chamber. Doy.
Also since you insist on using "sweetie" in reference to my displayed character and instead of me, the person typing this all out, i'll return the favor in kind, hun. Because yes I am that petty.

===
Yes, retreat to "it was sarcasm bro just a joke bro haha can't believe you didn't get that bro" as if it makes your case any better, dear. Oh wait, no, it absolutely doesnt.

"It's not content they want to do."
And? What's wrong with that, sugar? If I'm paying to go to a buffet, and all I want to eat is steak, then all I will eat is steak. I couldn't care less about their desserts, their salad bar, their vegan options, nor any gimmick jank they also have. I came for a steak, and I want to eat steak. Just because something is being offered to you, doesn't mean you have a moral obligation to take part in it unless you want to do so for yourself.

Are baddies going to complain that X is too hard? Yes.
Will some baddies try to improve, or just wait for the established trend of "wait a while for the nerf to hit?" Yes, to both. That's the beauty of having an eclectic, diverse audience, deary. You can not predict what they'll do, just guesstimate based on established trends.

===
Yes, the complaints of "Why is XIV trying to be XI?" were made, because yes, that was a design ethos that was heavily drawn upon when designing Eureka. I don't need to check any wayback internet archive because I was there day one, babe. Luckily, I never needed to ask why people did it, I know why I did it: gil, glamour items (which could be market boarded, for those that didn't want to grind the boxes out), furniture (to sell for gil), a barding that was not tradeable that I still use bits of to this day, a mount I like to use when I wanna see something ridiculous flying through the air, and to date i've never had any sort of social interaction in this game the likes of which anemos brought out of the community, and I am willing to bet nothing else save this new relic's next step could hope to achieve. That's why I did it, doll.

*An addendum, buttercup, because I realize I missed this the first pass.
I did the content for my own sake. Others did it for their own reasons. Was it bad? Was it good? That's not up for me to make a blanket decision. For this point all I can do is offer my own insights, address the good and bad, and let others formulate their own opinions on it. I will say despite the ups and downs I enjoyed it, and my experiences are unique to me. Aight boo?

===
Here's the big crux of my point i'm making, okay sweetie? Ready for this?
This game doesn't care what you want. This game doesn't care what you like. This game has content for everyone, and not everyone's gonna be satisfied with all of it. This game doesn't care whether you like it or not; this game cares not for your input on other people's enjoyment of the content. The development team made a game to get people interested, are trying to find as many things as they can to get as many people into it as they can, and to make money off of all those people spending subscription fees and any additional items/services they so want to purchase.
Maps, gathering, beast tribe quests, NONE of that is held back by any element in the overworld save for Hunts, and any side-quest requirements for beast tribe content. The overworld is what it is in XIV, and the dev team is not going to suddenly make it akin to WoW, ESO, or any other game because that's what they want, and has shown to work before.


===
That last point wasn't even any sort of criticism, love. But neither is anything you might drag out of your ear any point to prevent any similar criticism you leverage against anyone else, especially not using "big words" just to inflate any argument you make because you surely know how to debate. Dismissal, ridicule, reduction to passing euphemisms instead of addressing with respect of another debater; yep, you're one of a kind dollcakes. "I didn't see any merit in an argument someone makes, therefore it's nothing." Because platitudes at the end of a diatribe to let the audience breath and give them time to take in and evaluate what was said instead of constantly bombarding them with rhetoric is good for anyone, right darling?

[Crushnight]

I’d like to add its comparative to 2.2/3.2/4.2 for the “Worse how? Not as strong how? Being a bore how?” Thing I forgot to mention

3.2 HW
-2 dungeons
-midas normal
-midas savage
-5x (item name eludes me)item relic step
-Sephirot normal
-Sephirot extreme
-Mentor system/Hall of the novice
-The Feast
-Stone Sky Sea
-Orchestrian
-Vath beast tribe
-Hildabrand quests.

4.2
-Sigmascape normal
-Sigmascape savage
-Byakko normal
-Byakko extreme
-2 dungeons
-Eureka Anemos
-Submarine voyages
-Glamour dresser
-Ananta beast tribe
-Hildabrand (so brief but was there)

5.2
-Eden Verse normal
-Eden Verse savage
-1 dungeon
-Ruby normal
-Ruby extreme
-Memora extreme/Gangos area
-Diadem 3.0 for gatherers only
-Crafting/gathering relics (haven't had these since ARR)
-Ranked crafting/gathering
-Ishgard Restoration continuation
-Qitari beast tribe for gatherers only.

That is roughly what each patch had excluding glam/mounts/minions etc, it really goes down to preference on which patch would come out better. But if you do not deal with gathering/crafting this .2 patch is pretty easily the weakest of the lot, what helps the other .2 patches are the Orchestrian and Glamour Dresser (despite the very bad launch of this) which helped revitalise older content to go back and get ahold of things like music/glams whereas 5.2 has had nothing similar.

[Eldevern]

our opinions here are the most important and noticed

Maybe, maybe not... to be fair, I think SE has its own debats between dev, game designers etc. and Y-P take the decision in the end. Our opinions are merely suggestions, I don't joke myself, I have no illusion about the weight of our "debats". The real juge of peace are ingame statistics only SE have. They nerfed raids because COIL was not populated enough. Finally they made Savage and Ultimate. Was it because of complaints from hardcore scene of, because Y-P wanted to create some kind to incentive or, in a time of battleroyale and E-sport, to give some kind of... hum how could I formulate this? SE team is able to do challenging content. That's something we will never know.

[dinnertime]

Maybe, maybe not... to be fair, I think SE has its own debats between dev, game designers etc. and Y-P take the decision in the end. Our opinions are merely suggestions, I don't joke myself, I have no illusion about the weight of our "debats". The real juge of peace are ingame statics only SE have. They nerfed raids because COIL was not populated enough. Finally they made Savage and Ultimate. Was it because of complaints from hardcore scene of, because Y-P wanted to create some kind to incentive or, in a time of battleroyale and E-sport, to give some kind of... hum how could I formulate this? SE team is able to do challenging content. That's something we will never know.

It's honestly both. They do a pretty good job of saying they made/adjusted something because of player feedback. Yes there's also feedback they'll ignore for a lot of reasons, too. In the end, they make the call.

[Daniolaut]

I would like to add:

That there are other things lacking too.

I feel there is not only a lack of content but also a lack in quality.
Any "new" content, such as, "Diadem" cannot be counted as "new" content. They only had to make a few changes to its existing form.
There is also no "Thief map" version for maps in 5.0

The only thing I can say positively of this expansion over the others is the quality of the storyline, and the creation of the zones, as well as the FATE gem stone system.

The Fisher content, while new, doesnt seem very well made. Not that its bad, but easily could have been done much better. Its literally just an instance you pop in and out of. No immersion or quality to it at all.
The only thing we can credit to Square-Enix for losing....

-1 dungeon
-No new deep dungeon
-No new secondary or third map (Stormblood had 2 additional map routes after the initial dungeon. Shadowbringers currently has 0.)
-No real relic content (as of right now)
-The new jobs and races severely lacking in both quality and quantity (to me GNB and DNC lack having unique animations. Each animation and sound for all their attacks to me, seem very static and very similar to each other.)
....and everything else listed by the OP...

is Square-Enix gave us crafter relics and Ishgard.

While these things are very welcome articles of content, giving up everything else for that doesnt seem like a fair trade. To me seems like a clear sign that corners were cut, and attention to detail is severely lacking.

I mean we are still getting cutscenes with synchronized NPCs. Is it really that difficult to time cutscene emotes with a partial delay. Does every person have to turn their head, or emote at the exact same time? Its so absolutely lazy.

[Valkyrie_Lenneth]

And there's the "it wasn't new content because it was similar to old content" post I knew was coming..


Interesting that if it's like diadem or eureka it's not new, yet he says we're missing dungeons and deep dungeon, like those are new content we are missing. Interesting.

[Razard]

Whole lotta mad snippy

There seems to be a lot of misconceptions in your post. First of all sweetie is a verbal tick of a certain community I belong to. Can you guess which one?

second

I wasn't retreating into "loljk". I was mearly pointing out you where so stuck on the sarcasm of the post you missed the point. Your analogy also kinda falls apart, because it is going to a buffet, eating nothing but steak, complaining that there isn't more steak, then calling the host lazy for not putting in more steak.

Third.
You where there, but I only see an Ad Hoc reasoning to the content. Which was not positively recieved. And the fact that the only interactions you had in this game where inside Anemos says more about you.

Fourth

This game doesn't care what you want. This game doesn't care what you like. This game has content for everyone, and not everyone's gonna be satisfied with all of it. This game doesn't care whether you like it or not; this game cares not for your input on other people's enjoyment of the content. The development team made a game to get people interested, are trying to find as many things as they can to get as many people into it as they can, and to make money off of all those people spending subscription fees and any additional items/services they so want to purchase.

That. is. The. Point. Of. What. I said. Keep. Up.
or are we playing death of the (Author) original response.

Dismissal, ridicule, reduction to passing euphemisms instead of addressing with respect of another debater

Lets look at those debators, shall we?

... is the best depiction of stockholm syndrome I have seen here. Kudos.

<You don’t know how to argue Shill/10>

THIS is what I meant by they give me nothing. They add nothing but white noise to procedings and when called out on it all people get it is "Muh Shill" or Muh White Knight".

There are legitimate criticisms to be leveled at the game, but it is lost amongst a sea of "Content bad, Make good!" Which helps no one. That is why I do not respect such people.

[WhyAmIHere]

There seems to be a lot of misconceptions in your post. First of all sweetie is a verbal tick of a certain community I belong to. Can you guess which one?
No I can't, because A)I don't know you, and B)there are WAY too many "communities" on the internet, of myriad interests. If you're not willing to say where it's even from then why bring up that it's a tic from anywhere? Coulda just said "it's a tic, nothing personal," but meh.

second

I wasn't retreating into "loljk". I was mearly pointing out you where so stuck on the sarcasm of the post you missed the point. Your analogy also kinda falls apart, because it is going to a buffet, eating nothing but steak, complaining that there isn't more steak, then calling the host lazy for not putting in more steak.
Right, which is where I think there's starting to grow a disconnect in this whole thing. The original person you quoted is giving their reasons for why they feel 5.0 is turning into a less fulfilling expansion. Your comment to me came of as "I think you're wrong and here's why," and non-relevant bits aside I countered your arguments to side with that person because, yeah, in some ways I feel 5.0 is lacking... for combat-focused players, mainly. I also feel that DoH/DoL are getting slightly less shafted, but that's a debate i'll bring up when the time comes. Regardless; yes if we're sticking with the buffet analogy, there are less steaks being served than what people came to expect there to be.

Third.
You where there, but I only see an Ad Hoc reasoning to the content. Which was not positively recieved. And the fact that the only interactions you had in this game where inside Anemos says more about you.
Wrong. To say i've "only interacted with anemos was in-game" is disingenuous. I've seen the complaints on reddit, on discord, and the OF. I also recognize that, sure, by and large the majority rules anemos wasn't all that good. And yes, with hindsight sure the impact it had on the game and the players is more easily perceived. My whole point is that, firstly that any feedback that was posted on any social platform would only on average come from a small set of the total userbase. The phrase "silent majority" comes to mind. Secondly, for Anemos, despite how others felt, I personally enjoyed it, and want to keep those merits in mind. As well as my own input, the development team had time for Pyros to actually implement features that were impacted by feedback from Anemos and Pagos. So to say Anemos was a failure overall discredits the impact it had on Pyros and Hydatos, which players by and large agree is where Eureka got more enjoyable... At least everyone agrees Pagos was a flop. *shrug*

Fourth

That. is. The. Point. Of. What. I said. Keep. Up.
or are we playing death of the (Author) original response.
Nah, because what I said still holds true. It's just you and I, amongst others but for this case alone for now, aren't seeing eye to eye and disagree on things. We can disagree with each other by using the same argument based on empirical information: that SE is a company driven by profit and that the developer's purpose is to create an engine that fuels profit, which for the XIV team means making good content.

Lets look at those debators, shall we?


THIS is what I meant by they give me nothing. They add nothing but white noise to procedings and when called out on it all people get it is "Muh Shill" or Muh White Knight".

There are legitimate criticisms to be leveled at the game, but it is lost amongst a sea of "Content bad, Make good!" Which helps no one. That is why I do not respect such people.
Fair. Just outright dismissal is never good... which if you recall is the first thing I levied against you. But idk, I'm capable of disagreeing with someone and having a debate/heated discussion/open dialogue about it. Bear in mind, like I said before, the initial appearance is those people think {Game not good, make better}, and yours is counter to theirs of {game is fine, be better}. For all intents and purposes I side more with the former, so my arguments will be bent more towards pointing out that case. Which is where I feel the disconnect (at least for me) is stemming from: from what you've just said you think there's plenty of things to say to the effect of "this is wrong with XIV," but you're arguing against a series of arguments stating thusly.
Where do you even stand?

refer to bold.

[Rufalus]

Game has always been budget to some degree, it's just they don't crunch as much as they did at the beginning for both sanity/health and because it's no longer required now that the game is successful. I'm happy for the devs to be healthy, happy and allowed to proceed at a reasonable pace. If they were already working pretty much to their full capacity before these new races were added, it's reasonable for there to be caveats to these new races existing. We were warned that they don't have time to adjust equipment and hair to this amount of races every patch. Probably a good call to implement them with some restrictions than to never have viera at all.