Shadowbringers starting to feel like a budget expansion

[Fynlar]

I used (ffxi) DNC as a healer quite a bit. Sure, it's no replacement for WHM and you don't want to rely on it as your sole healer in any serious content or against anything that will regularly debilitate the frontline, but I've support healed with it just fine in a pinch. (It sure beats the hell out of healing on RDM...)

I will say for ppl who complain about having no content, well just open your achievements list and start to clear stuff from there, when you have 20k points then we can talk.

cheers

People want content that's fun for them to do, not meaningless tasks to check off of an arbitrary list.

Sure, I could go work on getting 10 million gil from levequests or catching 10k HQ fish or whatever. I also don't want to do either of these things.

[Barraind]

open your achievements list and start to clear stuff from there, when you have 20k points then we can talk.

Yeah, theres clearly not a lack of Shadowbringers content because we can always go gather tens of thousands of useless ARR materials for points that you cant spend on anything.

[Jirah]

Theirs dozens of examples compared to SB and HW. The lack unique weaponry for the two new jobs, dungeons getting more
Simple to the point of needing a little handicap sign, getting less dungeons, the pitiful display from the relic quest, Raids being recycled from previous primal fights instead of being unique or at the very least recycled from the franchise history ie Cloud of darkness or ExDeath. SHB sole SOLE saving point is story. Music and Area design is also fine but suffers from the “Wild Area” effect of being worthless eye candy rather than a vibrant world.

5.2 is the lowest for me since the raids for worse the story isn’t as strong and the new Trials being a bore with the Jewel weapons.

[Razard]

Theirs dozens of examples compared to SB and HW.

Well let's hear them. I hope they don't turn out to be subjective nonsense.

The lack unique weaponry for the two new jobs,

Spoke too soon. Oh noes, not more weapons skins to throw into glamour chest, forget about, find again and use it for a week before moving on to another design.

dungeons getting more Simple to the point of needing a little handicap sign,

Since when have dungeons been any more than that? They've been that way since 2.1 pharos sirius. Exception being certain leveling dungeons if you don't keep up with your gear, but that's a numbers issue, not a simplicity issue.

getting less dungeons,

"But they are simple and boring doe"

the pitiful display from the relic quest,

As certain members of the community have pointed out, I remember when the team got burned in effigy when Anemos and Pagos came out. I'll take having the ability to give all of my classes a decent weapon after an hour of cutscenes, a poetics grind and, if you are new, the Ivalice raids. Over the boring 50 hour not-fate train. choo choo

Raids being recycled from previous primal fights instead of being unique or at the very least recycled from the franchise history ie Cloud of darkness or ExDeath.

Except the design from a different person from within the company, music, up to date and, most importantly, different mechanics. But yeah bruh, they're totally a copy paste. Besides, i wonder why they'd want to re-use the most iconic summons in the franchise? reeeally gets your noggin joggin, huh?

SHB sole SOLE saving point is story, Music and Area design is also fine but suffers from the “Wild Area” effect of being worthless eye candy rather than a vibrant world.

So the same as it's always been. I Ilvl upgrade and all the world mobs outside of hunts are too easy. I take the open world sections as a "you get out what you put into them" sorta gig.

5.2 is the lowest for me since the raids for worse the story isn’t as strong and the new Trials being a bore with the Jewel weapons.

Entirely. Gosh. Darned. Subjective.

Worse how? Not as strong how? Being a bore how?
4/10 see me after class

[Niyuka]

This "rebuttal" consisting of "your opinion is not mine so its bad" and "its been that way before" and "this doesnt count because I said so" is the best depiction of stockholm syndrome I have seen here. Kudos.

[Razard]

This "rebuttal" consisting of "your opinion is not mine so its bad" and "its been that way before" and "this doesnt count because I said so" is the best depiction of stockholm syndrome I have seen here. Kudos.

Neither is saying someone has Stockholm syndrome. But here we are.

And what can I say? They, like you, didn't give me much to work with.

Keep kicking that strawman though. Good job.

[WhyAmIHere]

Well let's hear them. I hope they don't turn out to be subjective nonsense.


Spoke too soon. Oh noes, not more weapons skins to throw into glamour chest, forget about, find again and use it for a week before moving on to another design.
Your dismissing tone is the first thing you bring to bear? Exhilarating. Also your experience/opinion != that of others, nor of everyone else. Look at another user here on the forums, had the same glamour look for years.

Since when have dungeons been any more than that? They've been that way since 2.1 pharos sirius. Exception being certain leveling dungeons if you don't keep up with your gear, but that's a numbers issue, not a simplicity issue.
+
"But they are simple and boring doe"
because even if you're being given less substantial a meal at least getting the same amount of it is better than getting a smaller portion of it. Even if dungeons are mundane drudgery, they're at least something to do and complain "wah these dungeons are so boring," yet some people would still do them, begrudgingly or not.

As certain members of the community have pointed out, I remember when the team got burned in effigy when Anemos and Pagos came out. I'll take having the ability to give all of my classes a decent weapon after an hour of cutscenes, a poetics grind and, if you are new, the Ivalice raids. Over the boring 50 hour not-fate train. choo choo
"Decent" is relative, w/ regard to the weapons. just saying cuz DET/TEN on a GNB? oof.
Now. Anemos was lambasted because it was a grind, but once players discovered the FATE train things got better. It was mindless content, led to good socical interaction (rez chains, multi-seater mounts being used for their intended purpose of carrying more than one person), and the lockboxes from FATES were easy gil. Pagos was burned at the stake because it's design was built to thwart everything players had done to make Anemos tolerable. Anemos wasn't the best content by any means, it was a gamble that SE took and hoped it paid off, and to some extents it did, but others it failed. Pagos was mostly a failure because it was built and designed without any player feedback, and without the Logos system of Pyros/Hydatos to make it interesting, obnoxious FATE boss requirements (trying to get gold rating on one NM, Cassie's severe lack of spawnin, etc), and terrible map layout it was an insult to players time. But ultimately, sounds more like "I didn't like it so wah wah wah" from you.

Except the design from a different person from within the company, music, up to date and, most importantly, different mechanics. But yeah bruh, they're totally a copy paste. Besides, i wonder why they'd want to re-use the most iconic summons in the franchise? reeeally gets your noggin joggin, huh?
This is a valid point you make to counter though. The Eden raids are all about restoring the elements, so what better way to envision the elements than with tried and beloved summons? Even if they've been fought before the Eden iterations, the new designs and implementation of new/existing mechanics is commendable at least.

So the same as it's always been. I Ilvl upgrade and all the world mobs outside of hunts are too easy. I take the open world sections as a "you get out what you put into them" sorta gig.
Kinda agree, but so far i don't think SE wants the overworld to be more than a vehicle to drive the plot and to return to when relevant. There's other forms and arenas to hold player attention, let's not build walls in the overworld to hinder them... I think is their philosophy. But eh. "Got my aether currents, now I can fly."


Entirely. Gosh. Darned. Subjective.
Worse how? Not as strong how? Being a bore how?
Opinions man.

4/10 see me after class

You're aint the greatest at critical debate, aintcha? Refer to the bolded segments.
3/10, please review your work and see me next time when you know how to formulate an argument and manage your tone.

[Razard]

You're aint the greatest at critical debate, aintcha? Refer to the bolded segments.
3/10, please review your work and see me next time when you know how to formulate an argument and manage your tone.

Some minor meat on these bones. And no, I will not be tone policed. Hearing the blithering, contradictory and whiny tones of this forum for years has hardened me against it.

Your dismissing tone is the first thing you bring to bear? Exhilarating. Also your experience/opinion != that of others, nor of everyone else. Look at another user here on the forums, had the same glamour look for years.

See above. I've been here a long time sweetie. I think I know a thing or two about this place.

because even if you're being given less substantial a meal at least getting the same amount of it is better than getting a smaller portion of it. Even if dungeons are mundane drudgery, they're at least something to do and complain "wah these dungeons are so boring," yet some people would still do them, begrudgingly or not.

You missed my point for the sarcasm, it appears. Complaining like the dungeons being easy like it is something recent makes me laugh. A running theme I have seen with many of this forums complaints is "We brought this on ourselves". Pharos Sirius killed roulette runs due to abandoning it the second it came up. So they decided that grind content should be easier. And we have recieved other content in exchange for 1 less dungeon. But let me guess, It's not content they want to do.

"Decent" is relative, w/ regard to the weapons. just saying cuz DET/TEN on a GNB? oof.
Now. Anemos was lambasted because it was a grind, but once players discovered the FATE train things got better. It was mindless content, led to good socical interaction (rez chains, multi-seater mounts being used for their intended purpose of carrying more than one person), and the lockboxes from FATES were easy gil. Pagos was burned at the stake because it's design was built to thwart everything players had done to make Anemos tolerable. Anemos wasn't the best content by any means, it was a gamble that SE took and hoped it paid off, and to some extents it did, but others it failed. Pagos was mostly a failure because it was built and designed without any player feedback, and without the Logos system of Pyros/Hydatos to make it interesting, obnoxious FATE boss requirements (trying to get gold rating on one NM, Cassie's severe lack of spawnin, etc), and terrible map layout it was an insult to players time. But ultimately, sounds more like "I didn't like it so wah wah wah" from you.

Decent for those who do not Savage and Extreme maybe? Ilvl is ilvl.

No. This is historical revisionism at it's finest. Check the way back machine for when anemos was released. It was excoriated for being a bad recontruction of a bad gameplay style that should have died out in the early 2000s. and that's not even getting into Pagos, like you said. And before you say something to the effect of "Then why did people do it". It's an MMO. People will wade through 100 miles of raw sewage for a mild Ilvl increase and a pat on the back. Doesn't mean they can't complain about the smell.

Kinda agree, but so far i don't think SE wants the overworld to be more than a vehicle to drive the plot and to return to when relevant. There's other forms and arenas to hold player attention, let's not build walls in the overworld to hinder them... I think is their philosophy. But eh. "Got my aether currents, now I can fly."

I get it, but I still get plenty of mileage from the maps, from gathering, treasure maps, beast tribes, etc. But that's not "content I want." right?

Opinions man.

I'm sorry, man. The word "opinions" isn't a magic shield that defends you from criticism.

What are the developers supposed to get from that fellows last paragraph, aside from a bunch of wishy washy nothing statements? That's right nothing. Once again, I wasn't exactly given much to work with.

in the spirit of things

6/10

Better than the last fellow, but needs to spend less time moralising and tone policing.

[Jirah]

Well let's hear them. I hope they don't turn out to be subjective nonsense.


Spoke too soon. Oh noes, not more weapons skins to throw into glamour chest, forget about, find again and use it for a week before moving on to another design.

<This isn’t a argument this is mocking someone’s play style. RED and SAM had a lot more options with progression and glamour, GNB and DNC don’t have a single Raid gear besides omega, and barley for its first Shiny weapons with Shinryu>

Since when have dungeons been any more than that? They've been that way since 2.1 pharos sirius. Exception being certain leveling dungeons if you don't keep up with your gear, but that's a numbers issue, not a simplicity issue.

<Early dungeons in ARR play wildly differently to 80s but that’s a whole other argument all together>

"But they are simple and boring doe"
<No argument here, less is less>

As certain members of the community have pointed out, I remember when the team got burned in effigy when Anemos and Pagos came out. I'll take having the ability to give all of my classes a decent weapon after an hour of cutscenes, a poetics grind and, if you are new, the Ivalice raids. Over the boring 50 hour not-fate train. choo choo

<Relic weapons are supposed to be hard earn not demoted to catch-up gear that anyone can get if they have 20-30 min to kill, people didn’t hate Erueka because it was a grind people hated it because it wasn’t poorly made theirs a massive difference. Want all you classes to have gear? Buy crafted weapons not expect hand outs from the relic quest of all things>

Except the design from a different person from within the company, music, up to date and, most importantly, different mechanics. But yeah bruh, they're totally a copy paste. Besides, i wonder why they'd want to re-use the most iconic summons in the franchise? reeeally gets your noggin joggin, huh?

<Original ideas always trump recycled ideas even if models/music/ and mechs differs. Not the most polarizing issue I have personally but I’d rather sink me teeth into eorzea lore not Primal reskins. Raid format still sucks>

So the same as it's always been. I Ilvl upgrade and all the world mobs outside of hunts are too easy. I take the open world sections as a "you get out what you put into them" sorta gig.

<if anything reoccurring issues are even worse since they didn’t learn anything to begin with>

Entirely. Gosh. Darned. Subjective.

Worse how? Not as strong how? Being a bore how?
4/10 see me after class

<You don’t know how to argue Shill/10>

[Jirah]

I’d like to add its comparative to 2.2/3.2/4.2 for the “Worse how? Not as strong how? Being a bore how?” Thing I forgot to mention