Tales from Duty Finder: Some make you laugh, some make you cry. Let's vent.

[Mavrias]

If you are out running your tank or not following their route etc etc, you're part of the issue, not the solution. Consequently, you are ruining the flow of the rest of the party and screwing the whole run up for everybody else.

Its dungeon 101. Tank goes first...

If I'm outrunning the tank their controller or keyboard must be busted cause they have the same movement speed as everybody else.

All endgame dungeons also have linear routes so if me and the tank are on different routes then the tank must be running into a wall.

[KaleShibata]

If I'm outrunning the tank their controller or keyboard must be busted cause they have the same movement speed as everybody else.

All endgame dungeons also have linear routes so if me and the tank are on different routes then the tank must be running into a wall.

reminds me of the time i humorously watched a tank in cutters cry recently run into every dead end pretty much on accident in cutters cry the other week, the one that leads to the boss room that is, running roulette with a friend. I was giggling like an idiot each time it happened. makes my day every time.

[Cincierta]

reminds me of the time i humorously watched a tank in cutters cry recently run into every dead end pretty much on accident in cutters cry the other week, the one that leads to the boss room that is, running roulette with a friend. I was giggling like an idiot each time it happened. makes my day every time.

I was in that party, and what was also funny was our tank admitted to being a delivery driver in real life. He was still a good tank though.

[Erim-Nelhah]

So I'm a skittish tank with a lot of tankxiety. I tend to pull slow as a result. Normally this has worked out fine. But this run yesterday made me shaky afterwards.
Queue'd for leveling roulette as DRK. Ended up in Doma Castle. Ok this will be fine, I thought. I've tanked this one before.

Except it wasn't. Had a BLM who kept pulling ahead of me. Had a NIN who kept standing in front of enemies and getting hit by cleaves. Healer seemed to want to play the "how low can you go" game before healing me.

When all was said and done, my tankxiety was maxed out. I thought I did okay, I mean there were no deaths. But the best part? Zero commendations. Second best part? These three were from the same server, so maybe the same FC? In the end, my will to tank in the future has decreased by a little.

I have yet to fully read all the responses to this, but I'm with the others here in that unless you're undergeared you should be pulling 2 packs at a time minimum in most content. There are exceptions (Stone Vigil being the standout example here), but in most leveling dungeons you can safely pull at least 2 packs at a time. This applies even more to any form of "endgame" dungeon...that is, any dungeon that can appear in 50/60/70 roulette, 80 roulette, or Expert roulette: The general consensus in these is that unless you know a pull is really nasty you don't stop until you hit a wall, simply because you tend to vastly outgear any "endgame" dungeon you set foot in unless you're completely neglecting gear or going in with "minimum IL" selected, and not pulling big will result in a slower dungeon with DPS that are crying and a healer who's bored out of his/her mind.

Some tips about pulling big:

• If you're new to the dungeon, say so. This doesn't completely excuse you from doing double pulls, but it does let the healer and dps know that you probably won't be doing massive pulls. Single pulling, however, even when you're completely new to a dungeon, is generally frowned on.
• By the same token, if you're new to the dungeon, don't pull more than 2 packs at a time. This is because many dungeons include the odd "more dangerous" mob mixed in with other mobs on some pulls. Sometimes, pulling too much with this "dangerous" mob can result in a wipe, which is stressful on both you and the healer and, depending on where the wipe happens exactly, can actually make the dungeon take longer than if you'd simply been doing even single pulls.
• Next, don't be afraid to either speed up or slow down depending on the group. Pulling 2 packs at a time and don't seem to be dipping below 50% health? Pull 3 packs next time. Pull 3 (or worse 2) and wipe? pull less. Learn what your group is capable of and adjust accordingly.
  • As an example, when I tank most "endgame" dungeons, I'll pull to the wall right at the start and gauge both how long it takes us to drop this pull and how well my healer keeps up with it. If it's fast and works out, I keep doing that. If not, I slow down.
• Finally, a note with regards to the above. Many healers will play "HP Limbo" with you - remember, the only HP that matters is the last 1 HP you have. Relax, use your CDs appropriately (usually you want at least one up at the start of every pull, preferably stacked with your short CD), and if you're really getting low (and aren't a DRK), pop your ult (LD is different, don't use that one unless you're sure the mobs will die within that 10-20 second window, or you trust your healer to both not panic and to put a couple of big heals on you after LD procs).

Now, as for what happened in your dungeon...if that happens again, stop and ask the DPS (or healer) to not pull for you. If they say something like "then pull more", you should probably do so. Regardless, if they keep pulling for you after that, however, the best thing to do is to turn off your tank stance and Shirk them. If they get mad, say that you thought that since they insisted on pulling you thought they wanted to tank. If they kick you, shrug and rejoin the queue - your queues are short enough. If they didn't die and don't kick you....shrug, be ready to stance back up and/or grab mobs off the healer (or the other DPS) if they're not doing double-duty, and enjoy the run as a blue DPS. That last option should be pretty rare, but can easily happen with an FC group like you had.

And to the person who had the healer rescue them into bigger pulls...This is the second time I've heard about this incident, and I'm saddened by it, both as a tank and as someone who knows why the healers and dps want bigger pulls. The best thing to do if you run into this again is to ask the healer to stop (I probably wouldn't be polite about it myself, but it can't hurt). If the healer says "only if you pull to the wall" (which is this healer's likely philosophy), then try it at least once. What's the worst that can happen? You wipe? If you do, shrug and go back to doing smaller pulls - I doubt the healer will mind at that point (most people want to finish these dungeons quickly so they can do other things, and wiping on a big pull is slower than pulling smaller).

Edit with regards to the previous paragraph: If you do that, you might be subject to being reported for harassment, so if you're afraid of that ask yourself if you want to either put up with them pulling for you or pull more....if not, you can either just leave or ask them to either stop pulling for you, kick you, or be ready to tank what they pull - and if they choose to not kick and pull for you again, follow through and let them tank what they pull by going into single-target on the stuff you already have aggro on or turning off your tank stance (after getting sufficient aggro on the stuff you have, ofc). Again, be ready to protect those who aren't pulling for you, but go ahead and let them tank what they pulled - you warned them, and gave them other options.

And with the above edit in mind, always be as nice as you can about stuff like this, as coming off as even slightly rude can also lead to harassment reports. This is one area where I think SQEX has gone too far, but it's their game and we do have to follow their rules.

Sorry for the late response here, but I haven't been reading this thread as much as I used to.

--Erim

[Erim-Nelhah]

This here. I JUST had a duty finder where my husband and I were running Grand Cosmos. Granted, I have a bit of gear, but I like to judge the dps reaction to an initial pull to see if I can pull the entire dungeon or if I have new people who need a break from the huge trash-pull-a-ganza. I like to think we are fair, and I know we aren't the fastest pullers in dungeons. "Insert waifu's name here" (let's just say it had kitten in the name) immediately goes to thinking we are about to kick her for pulling a mob set. Well, if you pull a mob set, and you're convinced you're going to get kicked, I think this is a fair assumption. She wouldn't loot after the first boss. Flat out refused because she knew we were going to try to kick her(thank you SE for creating diversions for acidic players to make us wait), so instead of kicking her, my husband leaves the group because he's not going to wait for loot to be resolved, so we can attempt to surgically remove this player from the group. The other player agreed with her and said if we wanted to move slower, we should have said something. I'm sorry that my trigger is, "pull more please," but admittedly, as a tank, I don't think you should be telling me how my job is supposed to work unless you have good, and fair, critical feedback. You aren't pulling enough, isn't fair feedback. Just because you need to run a hundred dungeons a minute in a day because your pedicure is in five minutes doesn't constitute an emergency on the tank's behalf for your dps needs. I'm sorry your queues are 45 minutes, but if you would just be patient and run the dungeon like (surprise!) a human being, you wouldn't have any of the issues that trigger your, "they're going to kick me," response. Just a rant for the fellow tanks that don't feel like they are allowed to tank a dungeon in a nice soothing environment while drinking their morning coffee. I love you all!

You may not agree with this, but I believe that the better gauge of a party's ability to handle a big pull is to pull big right at the start. If you're geared, use your CDs appropriately, and have even a half-competent healer with you, you'll survive the pull, even if the DPS are absolute trash. It's at that point I judge whether to continue pulling big or slow down - if the pull took ages or I died on it, I'll pull less next time. If the pull was smooth and at least somewhat fast, I keep it up. There are exceptions to this (Stone Vigil, where the trash mobs hit like freight trains, and the new expert, where it may be faster to single pull the summoners so that they can be nuked down individually without summoning the extra mobs than to let them summon.

As stated earlier, the worst that can happen is that you wipe on that first big pull, or that the pull takes forever to go down, and then you know better than to pull so much later with this group.

--Erim

[FedoraTheExplorer]

Not the worst dungeon run I've had, but queued for the Aery last night and our SCH was in a mixture of ironworks and level 50-ish green gear. The only thing standing out is one of their rings: it's the Brand New Ring. I ask the SCH why they're wearing a level 1 ring, get silence. Whatever. The dungeon was a bit messy, the tank never used their CDs and died a few times, was also at the verge of death a few times. I don't think the tank was good but that SCH with the level 1 ring was more the problem imo.

We clear and I tell the SCH to do something about the ring. Why are you coming into a dungeon in level 1 gear. You literally get a level 50 ring from hunting logs.

[Cincierta]

Not the worst dungeon run I've had, but queued for the Aery last night and our SCH was in a mixture of ironworks and level 50-ish green gear. The only thing standing out is one of their rings: it's the Brand New Ring. I ask the SCH why they're wearing a level 1 ring, get silence. Whatever. The dungeon was a bit messy, the tank never used their CDs and died a few times, was also at the verge of death a few times. I don't think the tank was good but that SCH with the level 1 ring was more the problem imo.

We clear and I tell the SCH to do something about the ring. Why are you coming into a dungeon in level 1 gear. You literally get a level 50 ring from hunting logs.

From the sounds of it, the sch was just too lazy. Laziness weighs down a group far more often than anyone would think. Speaking of laziness: got out of a Shisui run last night as tank and had a blm just spam coldflare nonstop on trash. They were actually doing less damage than the drg, and as a result the run took longer than I normally saw. Plus the spam actually started to hurt my eyes.

As glorious as flare spam looks, someone actually did the numbers and it's always better to use flare on groups when you're at AF3. This blm wanted to press no more than just 5 buttons the entire run.

[Mhaeric]

Now, as for what happened in your dungeon...if that happens again, stop and ask the DPS (or healer) to not pull for you. If they say something like "then pull more", you should probably do so. Regardless, if they keep pulling for you after that, however, the best thing to do is to turn off your tank stance and Shirk them. If they get mad, say that you thought that since they insisted on pulling you thought they wanted to tank. If they kick you, shrug and rejoin the queue - your queues are short enough. If they didn't die and don't kick you....shrug, be ready to stance back up and/or grab mobs off the healer (or the other DPS) if they're not doing double-duty, and enjoy the run as a blue DPS. That last option should be pretty rare, but can easily happen with an FC group like you had.

Do not take this advice as it is a quick route to getting a warning from the GMs.

[FedoraTheExplorer]

E7 is a lot of fun!

Right off the bat, one of our DPS ignores the countdown and pulls the boss. Despite that things go fine, though the early puller dies at some point and keeps refusing resses. I ended up messing up though, thought I was at the right colour when I wasn't. Co-healer gets me up, things continue going fine until they don't. People started dying so I pop LB3 only to see.

"Nah, wipe so we can kick the troll."

So that's wipe #1.

Vote kick is initiated. The early puller does it again and wipes the group. They get kicked not long after we all respawn and take a crack at the boss again. I end up dying again like a buffoon thinking I was at the right colour when I wasn't. When the dps check happens, we fail it spectacularly. I type in that we might need to wait for another DPS. The group disagrees and tells the SMN to LB when we get to the DPS check.

So that's wipe #2.

We don't make it to the DPS check this time. Somebody stacks the markers and kills the group.

Wipe #3.

We make it to the DPS check without much of a hitch. When the SMN is asked to LB, they don't. Then people ask for anyone to LB. Nobody does.

Wipe #4.

One of the tanks silently leave. The NIN calls us annoying and leaves too. At this point I think we might vote disband, but new people do join!

We tackle it again. Things go fine, we pass the DPS check!

And then I get distracted and fling myself over the edge. "Nobody saw that" I jokingly type in whilst I die on the inside. Thankfully our group is full of good sports and joke along with me. Things start getting messy during the colours, one of the tanks dies and repeats my joke. Our co-healer LB3's and we manage to get a successful clear!

I don't know what it is about e7, most times I can do it without a hitch but other times it's like I'm a caveman who can't figure out that 2+2=4.

[Dreamsoap]

Tip for new healers: Make a new HUD layout that prioritizes your party list in some form, preferably near your own HP info and hotbars. Watch it religiously like a hawk, your own "rotation" is incredibly simple, so you don't need to be eyeing your hotbars that much. Watch for debuffs and always purge asap. DPS loss is your fault too if you allow people to go without healing for too long. They key to being a good healer is simply just being attentive and aware of everything around you.