Warrior clunkyness

[Sqwall]

First off I would like to explain I enjoy 80 warrior. I like it's sustainability. I like it's heavy hitting play style. I actually enjoy it's simple rotation.

But the one thing that I can't wrap my head around is Nascent Flash. The more that I use it the more I want bloodbath back. Bloodbath is a superior skill compared to how Nascent Flash works with another party member. Bloodbath lasts longer and is easier to use (PS4 player). With that being said I don't understand SE's idea being giving warrior an inferior skill that relies on another party member to work. You can't even use it soloing to boot.

Now I understand the idea behind nascent flash in sustainability don't get me wrong there. But for boss fights it feels useless compared to what Raw Intuition offers with such a short cooldown.

Nascent Flash needs reworked given the clunkyness and changed to
Bathed in Blood (trait) - Everytime a rage spending skill is executed you gain a stack of Bathed in Blood with max stacks of 5. Using the Bathed in Blood skill (takes the place of nascent flash) heals self for 400 cure potency per stack. Additional Effect: Thrill of Battle extends the heal to party members in 10 yalm radius. Bathed in Blood has a 90 second cooldown, and stacks can be gained at any point until player decides when to use them after cooldown expires.

This would honestly fix the solo aspect, and the clunky feeling from nascent is fixed with thrill of battle additional effect healing the party rather then one person, and that stacks can be used when the warrior decides. Sort of an "Oh Crap!" button that can be used every 90 seconds. I like the idea that I can use this whenever I want and couple it with thrill of battle when I decide based on what I need or the party needs. Definitely more QOL. I would like to see the warrior leave the burst window idea behind nascent with a more use it when you think you need it idea. The cure potency seems high imo, and what do you guys think? Let me know with your comments. I love theory crafting all the time based on what would I like the job to identify with. Warrior needs to be: Chaos, Blood, Uncontrollable rage, Comrade.

[shao32]

nascent flash is for your partner support skill not a parsonal selfheal you should rely on specially when you have equilibrium and storm path for that purpose, while it's true you get huge benefics from it since WAR have periods of high damage spikes the nature of the benefic it's seems to be intended for the double tank busters whe get this last savage tiers, with proper usage you co-tank use his support skill on you and nascent flash on him and both get high mitigation and nice self heals making it a good combo buuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuut ppl only look in self benefic and preffer to abuse of nascent flash as a personal self-heal instead of use raw intuition wich to be honest considering how powerful nascent flash is it's normal they do.

in resume nascent flash is not clunky, it's ppl using it outside of his intended purpose more than anything else and it's normal that happen due the desing but the solution is simple remove the personal self healing and ppl will figure how to use it at it's should since raw intuition should be your primary option for any personal danage and not nascent flash.

[FirstnameLastname]

in resume nascent flash is not clunky,

Using it without a macro is very clunky. And even then it can still be a major piece of s-word to use.

[Sqwall]

I agree with other when you have to make the skill a separate macro for it to actually work correctly and SWIFTLY. I for one find it VERY clunky to use with a controller on PS4. DRK for example doesn't need this macro at all...albeit still needs to cycle through the party members to apply TBN. But the fact still remains you don't need a macro for the skill to just work.

I find it hard to believe every warrior is OK with how this skill works as intended. It's mainly used for the burst window DPS and then for infuriates. Other then that it's kind of lack luster outside of AOE pulls and Decimate spam.

I would call this skill niche and clunky. It needs overhauled, and imo WILL be changed in furture expansions. Mark my words.

[aodhan_ofinnegain]

Using it without a macro is very clunky. And even then it can still be a major piece of s-word to use.

It's just as clunky for Paladin / Dark knight / Gunbreaker to use their equivalent without a macro, same for shirk also, so that argument is moot. If the other three have to deal with clunky target requirement cooldowns, so can WAR.

[shao32]

you guys have to understand that nascent flash is primary desing to be used in you co-tank when he recive masive damage aka tank busters and other mechanics where the MT recive tons of damage and you not, it's the equivalent of PLD intervetion, DRK the blackest night and GNB heart of stone, all tanks have to target others to use it on his team mates and all tanks lose the use of a defensive in the process, DRK cant use TBN until is back, GNB the same with heart of stone and PLD lose oath resources the same used for shelltron.

the self heal is a bonus but is not meant to be used as personal purposes since for that we have raw intuition sharing the same recast, a skill that doesn't need to switch targets and you have equilibrium every 60s, with that recast you can self heal yourself after mitigate any TB with a great chunk, if nascent flash is too annoying to abuse then use the defensive kit as how should be, yeah the skill is great to enjoy , i personally enjoy a lot when i use chaotic cyclone and laugh at the mass pulls since remember me the old days of DRK and his fantastic AOE rotation, but undestarnd is not mean to be used that way and that rate and every tank have to target you team mates to trow them his single target mitigation so WAR is not more clunky that the others.

[Nedkel]

It's just as clunky for Paladin / Dark knight / Gunbreaker to use their equivalent without a macro, same for shirk also, so that argument is moot. If the other three have to deal with clunky target requirement cooldowns, so can WAR.

This argument does not make sense at all.

DK could cast his shield on himself without circling through party, GNB could do it as well.
PLD self defensive cooldowns does not require target, intervention and cover does not give anything to pld and so he does not need to use those basically never outside savage unless the team is just very bad.
Warrior only gives 50% healing to the second target and 10% mitigation, it has been given to war in exchange for tank stance from stormblood which has been several times better than nascent flash. They took away warrior healing capabilities and put it into nascent flash which is horrible skill to use and its virtually not even comparable to what he used to heal before.

And i too support the OP, i would be far better with bloodbath instead of this clunky garbage skill.

you guys have to understand that nascent flash is primary desing to be used in you co-tank when he recive masive damage aka tank busters and other mechanics where the MT recive tons of damage and you not, it's the equivalent of PLD intervetion, DRK the blackest night and GNB heart of stone, all tanks have to target others to use it on his team mates and all tanks lose the use of a defensive in the process, DRK cant use TBN until is back, GNB the same with heart of stone and PLD lose oath resources the same used for shelltron.

the self heal is a bonus but is not meant to be used as personal purposes since for that we have raw intuition sharing the same recast, a skill that doesn't need to switch targets and you have equilibrium every 60s, with that recast you can self heal yourself after mitigate any TB with a great chunk, if nascent flash is too annoying to abuse then use the defensive kit as how should be, yeah the skill is great to enjoy , i personally enjoy a lot when i use chaotic cyclone and laugh at the mass pulls since remember me the old days of DRK and his fantastic AOE rotation, but undestarnd is not mean to be used that way and that rate and every tank have to target you team mates to trow them his single target mitigation so WAR is not more clunky that the others.

Stormblood warrior has been nerfed to the ground and given nascent flash to give SOME of his healing back to him, the "support" component of this skills is useless in practice and does not make any difference almost at all.
The job is a shadow of himself since 5.0 came out, it has it worse than drk that you are used to complain about so much.

[Reinhardt_Azureheim]

you guys have to understand that nascent flash is primary desing to be used in you co-tank when he recive masive damage aka tank busters and other mechanics where the MT recive tons of damage and you not, it's the equivalent of PLD intervetion, DRK the blackest night and GNB heart of stone, all tanks have to target others to use it on his team mates and all tanks lose the use of a defensive in the process, DRK cant use TBN until is back, GNB the same with heart of stone and PLD lose oath resources the same used for shelltron.

the self heal is a bonus but is not meant to be used as personal purposes since for that we have raw intuition sharing the same recast, a skill that doesn't need to switch targets and you have equilibrium every 60s, with that recast you can self heal yourself after mitigate any TB with a great chunk, if nascent flash is too annoying to abuse then use the defensive kit as how should be, yeah the skill is great to enjoy , i personally enjoy a lot when i use chaotic cyclone and laugh at the mass pulls since remember me the old days of DRK and his fantastic AOE rotation, but undestarnd is not mean to be used that way and that rate and every tank have to target you team mates to trow them his single target mitigation so WAR is not more clunky that the others.

Shao, for the love of god... get the idea of "Nascent Flash's primary purpose / design philosophy is to support your co-tank" out of your head. Nascent Flash is a two-fold purpose skill with both effects being equally viable, given the right situation.

It is also not fair to shoe-horn Nascent Flash that easily into comparison to all other target-utility just because you can target someone with it.

- Intervention can be used along with Sheltron as long as you have 100 gauge, Raw Int + Nascent can't.
- The Blackest Night only works for a single target at a time, but has the shortest cooldown + a resource refund to compensate.
- Heart of Stone also only works for a single target at a time, but instead of a shorter cooldown it allows you to transfer Brutal Shell to a target, as negligible as it may be.

In comparison to those, Nascent Flash sets itself apart for having two purposes at the same time, which more often than not don't need to happen at the same time to make the skill viable.
- Mitigation & minor recovery for a target
- Large recovery for self

In practice, Nascent Flash is more often than not used to recover HP, particularly if you are the current tank of a target and situationally it gets double efficiency from double-busters. The keyword is situationally.

The problem for many WARs out there isn't that they don't care about applying Nascent Flash / Glint to a target if an attack is about to hit them for massive damage or to deal with fluff damage. It is when the situation of getting a benefit of Nascent Glint, Nascent Flash's secondary effect is simply not possible but using Nascent Flash would be more beneficial for self than using Raw Intuition, that is where Nascent Flash has clunkiness regarding input and should be improved upon.

The solution to this issue - allow Nascent Flash to be cast without a target similar to Dragon Sight from DRG without applying Nascent Glint to anyone
The solution is NOT - nerfing self-benefits of Nascent Flash / buffing Raw Intuition just to make Raw Intuition 100% the go-to skill to use. (putting this here preemptively before anyone comes up with this idea)

What this effectively would change is allowing WARs who are MT / current tank (i.e. where 90% of the time there is no benefit to apply to anyone else) to use Nascent Flash without requiring a macro for swift use or without having to learn hot-swapping targets to use it. This would only make the input easier, the actual use would be identical as before.

[aodhan_ofinnegain]

This argument does not make sense at all.

DK could cast his shield on himself without circling through party, GNB could do it as well.
PLD self defensive cooldowns does not require target, intervention and cover does not give anything to pld and so he does not need to use those basically never outside savage unless the team is just very bad.
Warrior only gives 50% healing to the second target and 10% mitigation, it has been given to war in exchange for tank stance from stormblood which has been several times better than nascent flash. They took away warrior healing capabilities and put it into nascent flash which is horrible skill to use and its virtually not even comparable to what he used to heal before.

And i too support the OP, i would be far better with bloodbath instead of this clunky garbage skill.

Okay so re-read my point, seems you can't understand something basic.

You make use of the other 3 tanks equivalent skills to Nascent Flash in the same capacity i.e. using Heart of Stone on the Main Tank as it comes off cooldown for GNB unless in gashing combo, a lot of weaving as it, so delay unless it's needed, or hold if needed in the next 25 seconds for a buster/ mechanic because otherwise it's wasting a cooldown.

Intervention on Paladin, you use before capping so quite frequently if you aren't main tanking because again you're wasting a resource. You don't delay it's use unless you have Sheltrons or Interventions held for a specific buster/ mechanic where you will be left short if you use it before your planned usage.

DRK you typically TBN for busters / mechanics, but if you know the MT will take enough damage to break the shield, especially coming up to burst windows to get and extra edge / flood in said windows.

oh look at that, seems the other three make use of their equivalent supports skills.

Huh? Who would of thought that would be a thing...? /s

Also WAR has this skill called Raw Intuition, admittedly it is not as strong as Nascent Flash, which is a design flaw, but to disregard RI out right is a bad way to attempt to counter my point.

[Reinhardt_Azureheim]

Also WAR has this skill called Raw Intuition, admittedly it is not as strong as Nascent Flash, which is a design flaw, but to disregard RI out right is a bad way to attempt to counter my point.

Raw Intuition and Nascent Flash sharing a cooldown while MTing has the effect that one of them has a greater benefit, given the right situation. That is not a design flaw, that is clever design because your choice is no longer binary but rather depending on other factors of your kit, such as "do I have a combo ender / gauge spenders / infuriate when using this" or "will mitigating two auto attacks / a buster outweigh the healing benefit of NF through damage mitigated".