5.0 WAR is a disappointment

[Satarn]

snip

You still lose gauge - IR gives you 50 gauge per gcd to "spend", plus 40 for ogcds, it may not literally show on your bar, but that's what it effectively does. If you miss any gcd/ogcd within its duration, its resource value is wasted as if you overcapped. A missed gcd within old IR, leaving you at 25 gauge was also a 50 wasted initially, but at least you could get 20 of that back thanks to it actually staying on your bar, rather than vanishing into ether like now.
The real gauge value lost was 30, which is still small compared to the full 50 you lose now - the 5 that was left on your bar versus nothing you see now, was literally just a cosmetic difference.

GNB, MNK, DRG, DNC and even SMN all have 20 second buff windows and you somehow don't see them crying about it. Yes, WAR's burst might've been more significant to their overall dps, but that's not an issue with the duration - it's a result of having too much potency crammed into burst and not enough in downtime. If WAR had a problem with their Zerk getting cut short by mechanics, then they just had to plan for that like every other of many jobs with 20 second burst windows.
Some mechanics might've made it impossible to do a full window, but that's still the same as every other job with a similar length buff. The only job that was uniquely entitled to complaints about their burst getting cut short was MCH with older versions of Wildfire, because a cut WF literally didn't do anything due to how the ability worked. Any other job - including WAR - just got a weaker burst window than usual.

Besides, I wasn't talking about the boss disengaging - I was talking about the WAR having to disengage for a second to deal with a mechanic and how that - as well as lag - is more likely to cost you a gcd, the tighter your burst window is. IR doesn't need to have a screwed up timer like BW to have it happen occasionally, it just needs to have relatively more gcds in its rotation than old Zerk had - which is does.
Old IR was more likely to be cut by you screwing up and new IR is more likely to be cut by bullshit out of your control. I generally prefer stuff that's on me, so I can just learn to do it better next time, but I guess that's up to one's preference.

It's fine if you like WAR being simpler now, not all jobs have to be super complex(although these days it's more like none are) and it's okay to prefer more relaxed things. It's just silly to argue that old IR was objectively flawed mechanically and thus "HAD to go", by pretending that WAR somehow worked under different laws than rest of the jobs and that the new version is free of issues, when there's plenty wrong with it.

[Hierro]

GNB, MNK, DRG, DNC and even SMN all have 20 second buff windows and you somehow don't see them crying about it.

When you refer to those other jobs, MNK had a recast shorter, DRG's BL could be held becuase of its long cooldown, you'd only get a few uses regardless. GNB, while NM is 20 seconds, it also only has 60 seconds recast and not all GCDs are crucial to pull off as you never see anyone cry about missing a buffed keen edge. DNC, it's nowhere near a significant buff as with old IR. SMN is about the only other job I'd say is comparable, but even then their damage isn't as centralized.

IR was very different in that regard and it's good to acknowledge it, but don't pretend other jobs had it as rough.

[Satarn]

When you refer to those other jobs, MNK had a recast shorter, DRG's BL could be held becuase of its long cooldown, you'd only get a few uses regardless. GNB, while NM is 20 seconds, it also only has 60 seconds recast and not all GCDs are crucial to pull off as you never see anyone cry about missing a buffed keen edge. DNC, it's nowhere near a significant buff as with old IR. SMN is about the only other job I'd say is comparable, but even then their damage isn't as centralized.

IR was very different in that regard and it's good to acknowledge it, but don't pretend other jobs had it as rough.

One is better because it's more rare than old IR and the other is better because it's more common? So which is it? Also what BL, I was referring to DRG's Lance Charge, which is 90 sec cd(but I guess that's also better somehow, because reasons).

The bit about being more/less significant loss is - again, like I've explained in the part of the post you've cut - tied to how much of total dps is focused in the burst itself, not to buff length, which could be adjusted. It wasn't an "all or nothing" situation like you're trying to portray it either - losing a gcd didn't mean the entire window went to trash, at the end of the day lost potency is lost potency, there's just a difference of how much.

WAR's damage wasn't even fully centralized in IR like now, there were raw Zerks as well, but you seem to talk as if IR windows were all you had. Meanwhile DNC really does only have its 2 min window as the one spot which they cram all their resources into.
Dps jobs also usually have way more complex burst rotations than what WAR had, so that's an additional factor that makes saying "oh poor WAR had it so rough" rather odd. Mistakes might've been punishing, but they weren't exactly difficult to avoid.

[Hierro]

Mistakes might've been punishing, but they weren't exactly difficult to avoid.

And to that, I ask what experience have you in the matter? I don't think many other jobs had the complex task of a burst window like old IR. All I can find is a single O1S clear to your name, so how can you honestly say anything about how managable old IR was? Come on, now.

[Satarn]

And to that, I ask what experience have you in the matter? I don't think many other jobs had the complex task of a burst window like old IR. All I can find is a single O1S clear to your name, so how can you honestly say anything about how managable old IR was? Come on, now.

While I was indeed just starting to raid at the time, I did o2s and Shinryu EX(which was supposedly e3s difficulty, although I wouldn't be able to say personally so idk) as well - you won't find most of my runs in logs, as people I ran with didn't upload much at the time. It wasn't quite as bad as just one Alte Roite kill, but I won't bullshit that I was really experienced either of course.

That said, being the baby nooblet that I was, I still didn't find executing WAR's rotation very difficult at all, so that kinda says something too. I'm sure it would be more challenging in o4s or UcoB obviously, but which job's rotation isn't? IR window itself was a very simple sequence of buttons. It lacked all the double weaving, positionals and reacting to procs that a lot of dps jobs have in their bursts.

[DaulBan]

All I can find is a single O1S clear to your name, so how can you honestly say anything about how managable old IR was? Come on, now.

https://media.discordapp.net/attachm...640&height=502

If you wanna appeal to authority, I can say with 100% confidence as one of the top 50 Warriors at the time, it wasn't that bad.

[Hierro]

https://media.discordapp.net/attachm...640&height=502

If you wanna appeal to authority, I can say with 100% confidence as one of the top 50 Warriors at the time, it wasn't that bad.

Then we might as well pull out the guy who practically started the whole movement and refer to Xeno, who was higher ranked at the time, as a bigger authority and say his opinion nulfies yours. How you gonna answer with a straight face that a tank with a burst rotation that was OBJECTIVELY more complex than most DPS jobs as "not that bad"? Get outta here.

[Khimer]

How you gonna answer with a straight face that a tank with a burst rotation that was OBJECTIVELY more complex than most DPS jobs as "not that bad"? Get outta here.

Huh? Weren't you the one saying that warrior was never complex?

It was never complex.

Yeah, that's you. Literally 20 pages ago. So which is it?

[Kabooa]

Then we might as well pull out the guy who practically started the whole movement and refer to Xeno, who was higher ranked at the time, as a bigger authority and say his opinion nulfies yours. How you gonna answer with a straight face that a tank with a burst rotation that was OBJECTIVELY more complex than most DPS jobs as "not that bad"? Get outta here.

It was inflexible. That's not the same thing as complex.

[DaulBan]

Then we might as well pull out the guy who practically started the whole movement and refer to Xeno, who was higher ranked at the time, as a bigger authority and say his opinion nulfies yours. How you gonna answer with a straight face that a tank with a burst rotation that was OBJECTIVELY more complex than most DPS jobs as "not that bad"? Get outta here.

I can say it with a straight face 'cause it wasn't, because when I played it I didn't find it that hard to optimize. Summoner in the same expansion was a longer rotation with more chances for desync and tornado kick rot monk had stricter timings.I found those ones substaaaantially more difficult to optimize than 4.1 WAR, which I found natural and easy. The fact that you didn't and struggled with it to the extent you clearly did, given your manner of talking about this, is unfortunate.

The reality is, some people enjoyed it as it was, some people didn't. Xeno hated it because he likes round numbers, I liked it because you're not supposed to screw up enough to have 5 left over. We (everyone) can keep arguing about it ad nauseum because this is what the people in the DRK threads did for all the Stormblood, but it wouldn't mean anything in the end because SE's decision was probably made before you, or I, or God got a chance to play the expansion. It's likely that WAR changes were in the pipeline near the end of Stormblood development and just weren't ready for 4.0, so they delayed them to the next raid cycle as to not disrupt the job too much. Even Xeno's vaunted influence in making it happen quite literally couldn't have made a difference in the two months before .2 . And, in the end, for SE's metric it made no goddamn difference in the number of people playing WAR.

So I grieve for you, Hierro. I really do. They changed something, and when people say they liked it before the changes you get all aggro about it. I, for one, already made my point in an earlier post that was actually directed towards the OP. Now I must close this thread and never re-open it, lest I let my friends catch me arguing with a f*rry.