Sex between the Races Lore?

[kujoestars]

That's because dragon's physical development is entirely based upon the aether they absorb through their eyes as they age. At different phases of life they hit thresholds which, based on elemental balances and imbalances, metamorphose them into the varied forms of dragons we see.

The Ronkan Empire had Ronso royalty, the Drahn made up the priesthood.

Also we do know what Vrtra and Azdaja look like from The First Brood portrait in the first Encyclopedia. They don't have Auri features, one of them doesn't even have horns, and the one that does has feathers and a beak, and neither fall into Auri coloration.

Interesting; was that something revealed via Omega quests or the lorebooks? Because my lore-snooping on the web didn’t turn up anything, but the Final Fantasy wiki is also pretty spotty on some info.

That said, hilariously when I dug for the First Brood art, the one that immediately struck me as Auri-like is Ratastokr (going off the four curved horns matching with the heavily stylized depiction of her). That said though, when I said “Auri-like traits”, I was thinking more in the sense of horns that aid hearing and the dimorphism. The latter of which was only said to not be widely seen. The only lines of dragons we’ve seen are Hraesvelgr’s and Nidhogg’s, and these are most likely the dragons most Eorzeans are familiar with.

Can’t remember off the top of my head if Ratastokr had her own brood, but if dragons are shaped by aether, it does raise some interesting possibilities on what could happen after several generations and any potential crossbreeding with Spoken.

But of course, with Azdaja and Vrtra not quite fitting the bill for the Dawn Father and Dusk Mother look, that brings us back to Bahamut/Tiamat for the dragon theory. XD

Also, just for the record, I personally believe that if Auri have any relation at all to dragons, it would be very distant at best. Which could be why dragons don’t really find Auri particularly notable from an in-universe perspective. Evidently though, Othard has had dragons at SOME point, but they sadly weren’t ever shown in Stormblood and I would kill for more dragon lore in a future expac because the dragon lore in this game is so good.

[TheMightyMollusk]

Evidently though, Othard has had dragons at SOME point, but they sadly weren’t ever shown in Stormblood

The level 60-70 dragoon quests have one of Nidhogg's brood living in the Azim Steppes, having fled to escape being dragged into the Dragonsong War and gone mad. If we count the Monster Hunter crossover, there's also the Rathalos, who's just presented here as a powerful wyvern (we could debate whether or not the crossover counts, but I'm noting it here for completion's sake).

[kujoestars]

The level 60-70 dragoon quests have one of Nidhogg's brood living in the Azim Steppes, having fled to escape being dragged into the Dragonsong War and gone mad. If we count the Monster Hunter crossover, there's also the Rathalos, who's just presented here as a powerful wyvern (we could debate whether or not the crossover counts, but I'm noting it here for completion's sake).

Sorry, should have said “Othardian dragons”. XDDDD I completely forgot about that questline, but I was thinking of the dragons Othardians are more familiar with, which I doubt are Nidhogg’s.

[Cybylt]

The metamorphosis of dragons was in the first encyclopedia.

We've seen dragons of Bahamut and Tiamat's brood in Coil and Aszys Lla, they follow the same morphology we've seen in Hraesvelgr and Nidhogg with the one possible exception of the 'Coeurl' Dragons which are land-bound dragons that develop agility rather than heavy defensive shells. The metamorphosis chart says the Brobinyak which we see among Nidhogg's brood is the stage before that, though.

"Her remaining brood can still be seen soaring through the skies, the wanderlust of their progenitor flowing strong through their veins."

Bahamut and Tiamat do feel like the most obvious draw because of titles, but they don't hold exclusive claim to day/night dichotomies and to our knowledge they'd only ever lived in Meracydia, and the Au'ra had lived on the Othardian continent since at least the time of Allag. There's also a pretty fundamental gap in the whole idea in that dragons came to the world after the sundering, and au'ra have counterparts on the reflections indicating the race was present before it.

[kujoestars]

The metamorphosis of dragons was in the first encyclopedia.

We've seen dragons of Bahamut and Tiamat's brood in Coil and Aszys Lla, they follow the same morphology we've seen in Hraesvelgr and Nidhogg with the one possible exception of the 'Coeurl' Dragons which are land-bound dragons that develop agility rather than heavy defensive shells. The metamorphosis chart says the Brobinyak which we see among Nidhogg's brood is the stage before that, though.

"Her remaining brood can still be seen soaring through the skies, the wanderlust of their progenitor flowing strong through their veins."

Bahamut and Tiamat do feel like the most obvious draw because of titles, but they don't hold exclusive claim to day/night dichotomies and to our knowledge they'd only ever lived in Meracydia, and the Au'ra had lived on the Othardian continent since at least the time of Allag. There's also a pretty fundamental gap in the whole idea in that dragons came to the world after the sundering, and au'ra have counterparts on the reflections indicating the race was present before it.

But that’s the part I’m questioning; if it’s possible that Auri appeared on the First and the Source post-Sundering. I finally managed to find a copy of the the first lorebook and the part about aether affecting physiology further feeds my speculation that under similar circumstances and countless generations, we could end up with Auri with how drastically a dragon’s physiology can change to the point they practically are different creatures (the exact words from the lorebook).

It’s purely open-ended speculation on my part, but it is to me completely possible at some point a dragon ended up on the First somehow (whether by weird time shenanigans or any myriad of things related to Allagan tech and/or pure dimension-hopping) and under similar circumstances, Auri eventually evolved. People apparently had a decent enough idea of how dragons look to make the Fae Gwiber after all, and I’m not convinced First Auri being called Drahn is a coincidence. But of course they could have just gotten the idea similarly to how irl humans all independently have the same general idea of dragons as powerful magical reptiles/serpents.

I doubt it was directly Bahamut/Tiamat for a lot of reasons, but to me there is a good chance of some descendent of theirs being the ones involved. Honestly, if there’s any consistent pattern in FFXIV, it’s that the legends all have some grain of truth to them. We just alas, probably aren’t ever getting an answer anytime soon, but that doesn’t stop Yoshi-P and Co from playing coy on the matter. I will stand firmly on the fact the concept that was ultimately finalized is titled “Dragon_Race”.

[Cybylt]

So we know two specific circumstances by which things can cross the Rift. Kill your body, make the jump as an aetherial phantasm, and inhabit a host. A Calling made via very, very specific magical and technological processes that can only reasonably have occurred exactly once such that not even the Ascians knew how it functioned.

Because of not being part of the sundering, Dragons (to our knowledge) don't get the Echo, so that rules out the former and even if they did, the death of the body would mean no physiological inheritance. A dead dragon can exert its will through an eye in similar fashion, but Midgarsormr referred to such a being as a Shade and would likely follow the same limitation of no longer having an actual body.

No dragons have been known to be brought over by the source of the calling, and even if they were, they'd have only existed on the First for 100 years up to the point we got there, Drahn would therefor predate them because they existed in Ronka.

Then we got the reason why Au'ra are physically compatible with the other Spoken, and why dragons likely aren't. All of the spoken, evidenced by the former fact, are different physiological developments of the same base race. Dragons are an alien race with a fundamentally different physiology, they live tens of thousands of years, metamorphose several times in a single lifespan, and reproduce by what is effectively aetherial parthenogesis.


If au'ra were descendants of such things, why do they they mature rather than metamorph? Their horns are ears, and odd ears are present in more than half of the spoken races. If they have a cross-bred reason for their traits, wouldn't that also extend to the other spoken that deviate from hyuran form? What are their reasons for being how they are and present on multiple planes?

And I guess lastly if they were compatible and if SE wanted them to be actual dragonkin instead of just some aesthetic touches, I feel like the most obvious question is why didn't Shiva and Hraesvelgr have kids?

We also already know the effects of draconic material aether being presented to the spoken and passed down genetically. Ishgard, all of Ishgard. There is no middle ground with the process, you're either yourself, or transformed into a full dragon.

[MikkoAkure]

Snip.

There would have to be a lot of contrivances and deus ex machina in order to make au ra/drahn dragon descendants who exist on multiple planes of existence despite dragons only coming to one after the planes split. If the writers had intended on au ra being descended from dragons, they wouldn't have explicitly said that they're not descended from dragons, as quoted from the Lodestone I posted above. And additionally, they could have had au ra simply not be on the First if they were dragon-kin. The fact that they are there is the final nail in the coffin for the dragon theory unless new information comes from the lore team or from future patches.

[Iscah]

But that’s the part I’m questioning; if it’s possible that Auri appeared on the First and the Source post-Sundering. I finally managed to find a copy of the the first lorebook and the part about aether affecting physiology further feeds my speculation that under similar circumstances and countless generations, we could end up with Auri with how drastically a dragon’s physiology can change to the point they practically are different creatures (the exact words from the lorebook).

The thing is, that happens at an individual level, and resets with every generation. It's like Pokémon evolution - a dragonet becomes a dragon, the dragon becomes a wyrm, the wyrm lays an egg... and what hatches from the egg is a dragonet, not a baby wyrm.

[kujoestars]

The thing is, that happens at an individual level, and resets with every generation. It's like Pokémon evolution - a dragonet becomes a dragon, the dragon becomes a wyrm, the wyrm lays an egg... and what hatches from the egg is a dragonet, not a baby wyrm.

That is true, though if the offspring stays in the same region that would result in the same form repeatedly, or alternately if the aether changes to yet another unique imbalance. And for a little wild speculation, what if even within known patterns mutations happen? The thrown in any possible hybridization with man so forms become more fixed.

Back on just dragon themselves though: Your Pokemon analogy has me grinning at the thought of "Alolan Form" dragons. XD

[kujoestars]

There would have to be a lot of contrivances and deus ex machina in order to make au ra/drahn dragon descendants who exist on multiple planes of existence despite dragons only coming to one after the planes split. If the writers had intended on au ra being descended from dragons, they wouldn't have explicitly said that they're not descended from dragons, as quoted from the Lodestone I posted above. And additionally, they could have had au ra simply not be on the First if they were dragon-kin. The fact that they are there is the final nail in the coffin for the dragon theory unless new information comes from the lore team or from future patches.

The Lodestone entry, again, only said it was debatable because of the two traits. And another thing is, we don’t know what exactly exists on all the Shards because Source aside, we’ve only seen the Firat (13th doesn’t count because it’s The Shadow Realm(TM) now).

Also, finally noticing the other posts that have been cropping up since I last posted, I feel I should clarify that I’m not “dead set” on Auri being dragons. First of all, I don’t think they’re literal dragons no matter what theory turns out true. Second, I’m only arguing the possibility is open, which is different from saying ‘They definitely are’. And lastly, what’s wrong with a little speculation? Everyone acts like it’s a one and done deal, but personally I still maintain if it’s not dragons, it’s some dragon-like ancestor that if not for the fact dragons are literally aliens in this game, would probably be called dragons.