Petition to Increase Old Alliance Raids' Difficulty

[RyuSaarva]

I wouldn't mind to revive them as new level 80 endgame-content but I'm not in favor of raising the difficulty of the old level 50 raids. Because back then it was endgame content under a very different job-rotation. Nowadays level 50 players are still very new to the game and their jobs have only a few skills. So level 50 content should be beginner friendly content. Adding a stepping stone with former endgame-content - raised back to that endgame difficulty - wouldn't be the right thing to do here.

They are not beginner easy, they are more like game journalist/ I win button difficulty right now.

[Avidria]

I've ran the first three raids, the Crystal Tower series (although I have a habit of calling Sycrus Tower, Crystal Tower since were inside the actual building, which does confuse people) well over 150 times before Heavensward launched (not each but combined). I used them to level jobs during Heavensward and so did them multiple times after that, and did far less during Stormblood because they just showed up less (until Orbonne launched, than they started showing up the wood work but at that time I wasn't doing the alliance raid roulette consistently).

Again the reasons why you're even having wipes now, when if everyone is "geared" and pew pewing you can faceroll both Behemoth and Phlegethon which are almost always the main wipes (since Shadowbringers I haven't wiped to the ol' Atomos trick, I will admit I could be lucky I only run the alliance raids right now about four times a week on my on week and eight times on my off week and I don't always get LOTA), but in the case of Phlegethon people arent paying attention to the first Ancient Flare and while the group can possibly cheese the 2nd one these days you can't cheese the first... and Behemoth most people don't pay attention to Iron Giants.

Yeah haha I was mostly just curious because I see wipes in all three raids all the time. Most often to ice melting on the jester dude in Syrcus Tower and to people not running for ancient flare, but also like... the Atomos thing, not reattaching Cerberus chains, saw a wipe or two from people not doing the belly and the adds on Cerberus just not being killed at all, people not standing in meteors for cloud of darkness, tanks not separating the three bombs in LotA... sometimes it's funny, but sometimes it's just unfortunate.

Guess it's tricky cause on one hand most wipes now are caused by just generally not paying attention or not knowing mechanics because you barely have to even acknowledge they exist, and making people have to care about them again would almost definitely lead to more wipes and displeasure at least in the short term.

On the other hand, the raids are so easy and boring that I can literally sit watching YouTube and mashing random buttons and still have zero problems clearing the place in like 15 minutes.

I like the idea of just adding a scaling ilvl requirement to the roulette itself and scaling rewards based on what you get... so I might not be stuck with a Crystal Tower raid 8 times out of 10 anymore at least. As long as the scaling is reasonable enough you don't get the situation Prae and Castrum are in, where the rewards are just so much better for more time but lower effort in Prae that I (and evidently many others, considering the number of people who regularly bail on load in) dread getting Castrum over Prae.

[Lumivyory]

Old content is old, and meant to be played by EVERYONE, not only by the elects who you think deserve to clear the content.

You want people learning to "git gud" ? Thank you but no, thank you.

Who wants difficulty can go to the new content and must stop looking at older content. If you want /flex your ego and how good you are with your skills, go flex it in latest savage and raids and stop asking to make old content less accessible to who is not skilled as you or, on worse cases, still have difficulties on clearing it today.

Old content for you is new content for new players. 24-man raids aren't some Savage 8-man raids, anyone with a functioning brain can clear them without needing to have it nerfed to the ground. We did level 50-60 raids just fine when they came out and we would be able to do them just fine now. You don't need to "git gud" to do LotA with proper mechanics.

You are being extremely selfish not only to people that want to have fun but to the new players for whom your "old content" is new.
Or do you suggest that currently all new players aren't as capable of doing old raids properly as older players were back in ARR? Well that's just rude to the newbies.

[Nestama]

Wow, a campaign to make older content more difficult. Kudos to you all!

But no, this won't have to happen.

Old content is old, and meant to be played by EVERYONE, not only by the elects who you think deserve to clear the content.

You want people learning to "git gud" ? Thank you but no, thank you.

Who wants difficulty can go to the new content and must stop looking at older content. If you want /flex your ego and how good you are with your skills, go flex it in latest savage and raids and stop asking to make old content less accessible to who is not skilled as you or, on worse cases, still have difficulties on clearing it today.

What's wrong with seeing mechanics that most new players have never seen in these fights? Did you know that Scylla petrifies herself if you do things right? or that you needed to have people stand in the magitek bit ads to prevent Glasya from powering up? and that there were outer platforms where the three alliances had to circle around the arena killing Rook adds before they could come back in? and that there were Counter/Repel adds (like I said. My brain is free real estate for unimportant things. I'll forgot something important very easily, though)?

It's not Savage difficulty. Heck, it's barely current 24-man difficulty. It's just something that kills the boring norm that is the Crystal Tower raids (dodge AoE, burn boss, mostly/completely ignore mechanics. How riveting).

[TheMightyMollusk]

If someone is having difficulties clearly Labyrinth, they're really gonna struggle with any fight that requires being conscious.

[yukiiyuki]

You want people learning to "git gud" ? Thank you but no, thank you.

Git gud? What? 24 man dungeons are pretty easy after 2-3 clears even when its a current content.

If you want /flex your ego and how good you are with your skills, go flex it in latest savage and raids and stop asking to make old content less accessible to who is not skilled as you or, on worse cases, still have difficulties on clearing it today.

People want raids to be at least engaging and interesting, like they were when released, not a snorefest where you can press 2 buttons and still beat the boss like in all 3 ARR raids.

still have difficulties on clearing it today.

I saw SAM did all raid with just auto attacks, dying just once in Crystal Tower, maybe you mean difficulty keeping your eyes on screen?
People who write in this topic mostly seeing raids as "medium difficulty", so what flexing stuff you're talking about? Its a video game, not a movie, they suppose to be played.

[SamRF]

If someone is having difficulties clearly Labyrinth, they're really gonna struggle with any fight that requires being conscious.

I'm all for increasing difficulty of older content, however I do struggle sometimes with older raids or any instance that has important mechanics since I usually forget everything about it. I often take long breaks from this game so I won't remember any of the mechanics from content I've cleared before and will need to be told or look it up, or experience it again (dying in the process), which is fine of course, but that may perhaps be why devloppers are hesitant to increase difficulty.

[negiman4]

Wow, a campaign to make older content more difficult. Kudos to you all!

But no, this won't have to happen.

Old content is old, and meant to be played by EVERYONE, not only by the elects who you think deserve to clear the content.

You want people learning to "git gud" ? Thank you but no, thank you.

Who wants difficulty can go to the new content and must stop looking at older content. If you want /flex your ego and how good you are with your skills, go flex it in latest savage and raids and stop asking to make old content less accessible to who is not skilled as you or, on worse cases, still have difficulties on clearing it today.

The argument being made by this thread isn't to make the content "hard" or "inaccessible". The point here is to make it fun, especially for new players. The problem with older raids is that they're TOO easy. Way too often I've seen new players clear CT and they're like "uh, that's it?". When you can clear all of Crystal Tower without doing a single mechanic, that's not a good thing. It's not about "git gud". We're perfectly fine with old raids being "easy". We don't even want it to be challenging. We only want it to be just difficult enough so that you can't cheese your way through all of them.

Read: More difficulty =/= less fun

[TheUltimate3]

The argument being made by this thread isn't to make the content "hard" or "inaccessible". The point here is to make it fun, especially for new players. The problem with older raids is that they're TOO easy. Way too often I've seen new players clear CT and they're like "uh, that's it?". When you can clear all of Crystal Tower without doing a single mechanic, that's not a good thing. It's not about "git gud". We're perfectly fine with old raids being "easy". We don't even want it to be challenging. We only want it to be just difficult enough so that you can't cheese your way through all of them.

Read: More difficulty =/= less fun

Not gonna lie, that's the impression I got from most of the comments in this thread. Though this is likely because the only way to make it more fun is to make it so dying is actually possible and the only way to do that is to either up the difficulty or drastically lower ilvls in the raids that would in turn up said difficulty.

If they forced a minimum ilvl for all Alliance raids and maybe nerfed our damage just to be sure then that would get the desired results of the people here. I'm just curious how that would actually play out in game. And for added fun, this would extend as far as the Nier raids, to ensure they don't end up easier than the older ones.

[Flay_wind]

Read: More difficulty =/= less fun

Serious question: are you running the Alliance Roulette to have fun or to get exp/tomes/clusters whatever?
Because personally i am doing Alliance Roulette to get decent exp + some other rewards when leveling my DPS classes.