Petition to Increase Old Alliance Raids' Difficulty

[Kaliesto]

I'm all for it.

I was way too late to do the Crystal Tower Raids back when it was released, so I have no idea what those Bosses were even capable of since alot of the mechanics are skipped completely which to me is kind of odd for content that is typically synced in roulette. It would be nice to see these bosses get restored as they were intended by Yoshida-san, and his developer team.

[Esmoire]

I'd like this, but as sort of a three-pronged approach.

1) Tighten the item level. This is simple enough. At this point, when you make old gear really accessible (which is a good thing), the need to have people feel rewarded in power-with-investment is diminished. It is very, very, very easy to get Ironworks Magitek gear, which is amazing, though it's really excessive in efficacy for the first two alliance raids in particular. Can definitely reduce avatar strength so we can't just power through mechanics.

2) Modernize them a little. Keep the general ideas the same, but maybe change the visuals or the way mistakes are weighed out on the individual versus the whole. I noticed in newer content, it's generally easier to tell what went wrong, even your first time doing something. It can also be a good way to show some standardized systems, sooner. Example is using a stack marker for the lightning bolt against the hydra in World of Darkness, which is actually split damage so you should share that. Also, I like how for the most part the game moved towards more you mess up = you get punished, and mitigated the ability for a few new people to cause a wipe for 20 others on a dime. Rather people die on an individual level, and have to res them, since that is already enough of a cost in a game where damage is everything. Though like, not abdicate teamwork completely; I like the adds that need to be kept separate in Labyrinth of the Ancients, for example.

3) Increase the reward. This is kind of a two-parter, since I imagine at some point, I wouldn't be surprised if the two dungeons in MSQ roulette are changed or made solo duties, and the MSQ roulette is taken out, along with its rewards. This would be a good time to move the rewards to more fun content. The 50/60/70 roulette, and a more expecting alliance roulette (especially if we have a better reward for having an ilevel appropriate to your level), are the perfect subjects.

[Pepsi_Plunge]

I wouldn't mind to revive them as new level 80 endgame-content but I'm not in favor of raising the difficulty of the old level 50 raids. Because back then it was endgame content under a very different job-rotation. Nowadays level 50 players are still very new to the game and their jobs have only a few skills. So level 50 content should be beginner friendly content. Adding a stepping stone with former endgame-content - raised back to that endgame difficulty - wouldn't be the right thing to do here.

[Lumivyory]

Because back then it was endgame content under a very different job-rotation. Nowadays level 50 players are still very new to the game and their jobs have only a few skills. So level 50 content should be beginner friendly content.

Back then we also had less DPS cuz LotA had 6 tanks.

And I personally don't consider the "skip all mechanics" thing to be a begginer friendly content. If you want it to be begginer friendly then raise the difficulty and maybe make some mechanics easier or remove a few. I don't think new people are happy about just being dragged through content, they need to learn and they need to have fun.

Having higher difficulty of lower level raids would allow new players to get a glimpse of what awaits them in the end-game content.

[Esmoire]

Back then we also had less DPS cuz LotA had 6 tanks.

And I personally don't consider the "skip all mechanics" thing to be a begginer friendly content. If you want it to be begginer friendly then raise the difficulty and maybe make some mechanics easier or remove a few. I don't think new people are happy about just being dragged through content, they need to learn and they need to have fun.

Having higher difficulty of lower level raids would allow new players to get a glimpse of what awaits them in the end-game content.

I agree with this. It's all the more important that we make sure there are mechanics that keep people awake, and alert, and have ideally more clear requirements + consequences than what we have right now. This isn't level 1 content; it's 50. I'd say something like Stone Vigil for example is more threatening than LOTA or Syrcus Tower right now. LOTA being gentle is fair since I can see people having to process their first experience with 23 otherpeople, though it can definitely step on the gas a little sooner. It needs to be more involved to get people used to having the three parties work together to achieve greater goals. Ideally with mechanics that are more active than they are right now.

[Hatfright]

Considering a lot of older raids mechanics is waaaay more interesting than current "just don't stand here, you'll die" pattern, I'm all for increased dufficulty. And given how even now people wipe from the very first trash pull in WoD due noone giving a damn about proper tanking or healing... Maybe that will teach people to do jobs they signed up for.
Not ready for that? Just don't do Alliance roulette, problem solved. Still want your rewards? Earn it then.

[Nestama]

Lower the item synch level so people have to actually do mechanics again. Let's be honest, how many people remember that Glasya Labolas even has mechanics beyond standard AoE markers?

My brain is free real estate for useless memories, so I still remember. Heck, I still remember wiping to Scylla because people didn't take their lightning orbs to the towers and/or not enough people stood on the pads (petrifying everyone).

Lowering the ilevel sync (would even go as far as forcing a minimum ilevel) would probably have me stay in the Crystal Tower raids. I save Alliance Roulette for last because if I get Crystal Tower, I just immediately leave and take the 30 minute penalty with me (which doesn't do anything for someone logging out).

[Kaliesto]

I think I once proposed a idea that old alliance raids should have level tiers like for example the World of Darkness having a lvl 60, lvl 70, and lvl 80 variant, and all the bosses will have remixed mechanics to overcome. Like for example you could give Cloud of Darkness not just one Beam Attack, but multiples from different angles at random.

You can add these variants to Roulette under a new Alliance Raid Category.

As for the rewards, I wouldn't know what would be appropriate for the different level variants outside of the original.

Maybe new Mounts you could work toward for doing the variants X amount of times, and other special things to keep coming back indefinitely.

[Enla]

And stop nerfing older ones simply because they're tied to newer content. I just got out of an Orbonne before maintenance hit that made me honestly feel bad whilst fighting Cid. They absolutely neutered that fight. We were able to almost completely skip the ice crystal phase and in the end we still were able to ignore it entirely while DPSing him down before the mechanic went off. There's 'making things easier' for the future relic quest, and then there's taking all the fun out of one of the better designed encounters in this entire game. Come 6.0 Cid is going to be an even bigger joke than he is now in 5.2, and that's a real shame. I could understand the arguments surrounding the desire to streamline the Orbonne experience due to it still being a significant skill check for the casual players in this game but they went WAY too far.

Really, all of the old raids should be brought back to standard. It's boring to run anything from the Tower Climb these days, and the HW raids are quickly approaching that same territory if not for Dun Scaith still possessing a few 'and now you're dead' boss fights that still present a semi-decent challenge. Or at least give people a roulette alongside the current Alliance roulette where all the older raids are properly tuned to their original difficulty.

[LalaRu]

Wow, a campaign to make older content more difficult. Kudos to you all!

But no, this won't have to happen.

Old content is old, and meant to be played by EVERYONE, not only by the elects who you think deserve to clear the content.

You want people learning to "git gud" ? Thank you but no, thank you.

Who wants difficulty can go to the new content and must stop looking at older content. If you want /flex your ego and how good you are with your skills, go flex it in latest savage and raids and stop asking to make old content less accessible to who is not skilled as you or, on worse cases, still have difficulties on clearing it today.