As a dungeon runner...

[Kalise]

I have as tank. What do you mean?

Stats are so inflated on Sync'd characters, it ends up with situations where as a Healer, I can be out DPSing both at level DPS players COMBINED.

I always sort of feel bad when I'm put into low level dungeons and there's sprouts there trying to be useful, but I'm casually pushing out more damage than them in between tossing out a Cure I on a tank that heals for their max HP...

They need to shake up dungeons a bit but as people said. Multiple paths are not a good idea, now I do think it's a good idea for leveling dungeons because extra mobs to kill for exp but for lv80? Mmmm it needs an incentive.

Honestly, the fundamental issue with dungeons is that they are designed to be farmed en masse. For Duty Roulettes, for getting Tomestones, for getting Exp and in some cases for getting gear.

This means they're never going to be interesting, because the incentive is always about doing as many dungeons in as little time as possible. As people are always going to be pushed to a state of mind where it's just running to the end as fast as possible, to get the completion rewards and leave to requeue.

Multiple paths won't work. Optional side areas with "Good loot" won't work (To say nothing about the fact that all ShB dungeons actually have minions that drop from the final boss). Jumping puzzles won't work.

Not as long as Duties are designed as the premier content wherein they are the go-to for farming for rewards in addition to the majority of their rewards being tied to the completion bonus.

This means that until they extend the Trust system to StB, HW and ARR to ensure that people can progress their MSQ and thus allow for content other than Duties to be rewarding (In a fashion that's as accessible as Duties, since yes, Hunt Trains are rewarding for Tomestones and Materia but you can't just log in and queue up for one whenever you feel like it), they can't really design dungeons to be more interesting and diverse experiences. Since, until the time where people aren't pushed to spam Duties constantly for maximum rewards, there's no room to make duties that have optional stuff for fun and/or alternate rewards.

[linay]

Stats are so inflated on Sync'd characters, it ends up with situations where as a Healer, I can be out DPSing both at level DPS players COMBINED.

I always sort of feel bad when I'm put into low level dungeons and there's sprouts there trying to be useful, but I'm casually pushing out more damage than them in between tossing out a Cure I on a tank that heals for their max HP...

If true, is there a reason why you think that's not the intended result? I think it makes sense since, even though you are synced, you are still technically higher level, so you should still be more powerful. And it also helps to make completing duties easier, which fits in with the use of dungeons in this game, as you've pointed out, to be done quickly as dailies or farming device.

[Kalise]

If true, is there a reason why you think that's not the intended result? I think it makes sense since, even though you are synced, you are still technically higher level, so you should still be more powerful. And it also helps to make completing duties easier, which fits in with the use of dungeons in this game, as you've pointed out, to be done quickly as dailies or farming device.

Well, I'm just pointing out that the reasoning of "We can't have full kits in sync'd content because we'd have to work harder for the same result as low level players" is flawed because in sync'd content we're already OP af compared to low level players due to how the sync functions.

It also goes against the philosophy that they use in terms of things like the unskippable cutscenes in the MSQ Roulette, which is for newer players to be able to "Have the experience as intended" which having other players skip the cutscenes and run forward and wipe out the entire dungeon before the first cutscene finishes doesn't adhere to.

Which also overlooks the point where due to level sync being kind of mediocre for actually bringing players down to a reasonable level, it means that new players still don't get an "Intended experience" because sync'd players just decimate everything anyway (Heck, all the "Bosses" in Praetorium/Castrum Meridianum die in less than 30 seconds. I don't even know if they even have mechanics because I've never seen them)

This can also extend into other duties, where new players can find themselves just running along trying to keep up with a party of sync's that are just zooming ahead nuking down everything before the newbie can do anything (I've seen it happen in some of the lower level duties). I've also seen some final bosses be killed before a newbie has finished watching its intro cutscene.

So, while maybe it's intentional to aid with allowing Duty grinding for high level players, whom just want quick runs. It goes against their premise for allowing new players to have the full experience of the duty.

[linay]

That's the thing, I may have not even had to use those 5 healing abilities if mitigation and self-healing was used well. I think the run would have been more efficient if there was a RDM instead of a healer. Or just a PLD as tank and 3 dps, or even dancer with that aoe healing they got might have been enough.

Edit: I'm also pretty sure it could be easily done if there's a tank with decent self-healing (PLD/WAR) and 3 melee dps using bloodbath and second wind optimally

Except the role assignment isn't necessarily based on optimal performance, so you still need a healer. That said, there's a reason why role (and item level) restriction is removed when going in as a full pre-made party. So regardless of what you think you can get away with, this still doesn't mean the level sync is broken.

(Also, I don't think either Paladin or Red Mage or Dancer can heal those dungeons with level sync.)

Well, I'm just pointing out that the reasoning of "We can't have full kits in sync'd content because we'd have to work harder for the same result as low level players" is flawed because in sync'd content we're already OP af compared to low level players due to how the sync functions.

It's not the same. It's one thing for your attacks to be stronger due to gear and level. That happens all the time. It's another for your attacks to be weaker due to having more abilities than is required at that level.

It also goes against the philosophy that they use in terms of things like the unskippable cutscenes in the MSQ Roulette, which is for newer players to be able to "Have the experience as intended" which having other players skip the cutscenes and run forward and wipe out the entire dungeon before the first cutscene finishes doesn't adhere to.

Which also overlooks the point where due to level sync being kind of mediocre for actually bringing players down to a reasonable level, it means that new players still don't get an "Intended experience" because sync'd players just decimate everything anyway (Heck, all the "Bosses" in Praetorium/Castrum Meridianum die in less than 30 seconds. I don't even know if they even have mechanics because I've never seen them)

This can also extend into other duties, where new players can find themselves just running along trying to keep up with a party of sync's that are just zooming ahead nuking down everything before the newbie can do anything (I've seen it happen in some of the lower level duties). I've also seen some final bosses be killed before a newbie has finished watching its intro cutscene.

So, while maybe it's intentional to aid with allowing Duty grinding for high level players, whom just want quick runs. It goes against their premise for allowing new players to have the full experience of the duty.

The "intended experience" is mainly regarding the story, not the combat, which can never have the original experience as they change the battle system over time.

And besides, for the most part, no one would notice if the healer is out-dps-ing the two DPS. You can look at enmity bar, but it's not certain unless you use a parser whether that's due to overhealing.

[Kalise]

It's not the same. It's one thing for your attacks to be stronger due to gear and level. That happens all the time. It's another for your attacks to be weaker due to having more abilities than is required at that level.

Except, if you combine both, then you have people with larger skillsets that are also more powerful. Given that the premise of being stronger than others is seemingly not an issue (Though, it is an issue for BLU which many people, including Yoshida himself, mentioned would be too OP in parties and that's why it's a Limited Job)

The "intended experience" is mainly regarding the story, not the combat, which can never have the original experience as they change the battle system over time.

Except, literally the reason for the unskippable cutscenes in MSQ Roulette is so that people don't clear the entire dungeon while newbies are watching the cutscenes. Meaning, to allow them to see the combat.

Also, there's a difference between not being able to fully recreate the original experience because of job changes over time and sticking a big middle finger up to the entire premise of the "Duty" by allowing OP sync'd players completely destroy the place.

In fact, the latter also has been complained about by veteran players too, who wish to go back and do old content, but cannot do so because their only options are to use the crappy sync and be too OP for it to be any fun at all or to use the Minimum Item Level option which can have the opposite effect, making it too challenging to be fun.

And besides, for the most part, no one would notice if the healer is out-dps-ing the two DPS. You can look at enmity bar, but it's not certain unless you use a parser whether that's due to overhealing.

It can be quite easy to see in lower level dungeons. When people don't have AoE's and you see 2 DPS attacking one target and then the Healer attacking another and chunking away at its health with their Stone casts.

[linay]

Except, if you combine both, then you have people with larger skillsets that are also more powerful. Given that the premise of being stronger than others is seemingly not an issue (Though, it is an issue for BLU which many people, including Yoshida himself, mentioned would be too OP in parties and that's why it's a Limited Job)



Except, literally the reason for the unskippable cutscenes in MSQ Roulette is so that people don't clear the entire dungeon while newbies are watching the cutscenes. Meaning, to allow them to see the combat.

Also, there's a difference between not being able to fully recreate the original experience because of job changes over time and sticking a big middle finger up to the entire premise of the "Duty" by allowing OP sync'd players completely destroy the place.

In fact, the latter also has been complained about by veteran players too, who wish to go back and do old content, but cannot do so because their only options are to use the crappy sync and be too OP for it to be any fun at all or to use the Minimum Item Level option which can have the opposite effect, making it too challenging to be fun.



It can be quite easy to see in lower level dungeons. When people don't have AoE's and you see 2 DPS attacking one target and then the Healer attacking another and chunking away at its health with their Stone casts.

I still don't see a problem with the current implementation of the level sync. It makes dungeons easier, but when I was leveling up, I did not feel out of place regardless of whether I was grouped with people higher level to me or not.

And yes, if you pay attention, you can notice certain things, but would that be the majority's concern? I don't think so.

And as for the cutscene skipping issue, yes it is about seeing the combat, but not about how the combat is done. The combat will still be easier, but you can still see it as part of the story.

[SamRF]

I still don't see a problem with the current implementation of the level sync. It makes dungeons easier, but when I was leveling up, I did not feel out of place regardless of whether I was grouped with people higher level to me or not.

And yes, if you pay attention, you can notice certain things, but would that be the majority's concern? I don't think so.

And as for the cutscene skipping issue, yes it is about seeing the combat, but not about how the combat is done. The combat will still be easier, but you can still see it as part of the story.

There may not be a problem with it, but don't you just think the vast majority of players will enjoy content better if it poses at least a decent amount of challenge, something that isn't too far off of what was intended at release?