It's time (Option to Hide other players Glamour)

[Krotoan]

I don't know about you, but I have this in-irl function installed that, when I see something I don't like, allows me to move my eyeballs in such a way so I don't see it anymore. It's pretty high tech. Really new stuff. And if it's in a video game where maybe I can't turn my eyeballs away or else I can't see the screen, I have this thing called a hand that lets me turn the camera in-game so the thing isn't on screen anymore.

And in game there are situations in which this is inconvenient or impossible such as ingame cutscenes or common areas with no alternate angles. You are ignoring people those people who wish to use certain settings and areas for their RP or gameplay and don't wish to walk through town with their camera pointed at the ground. Explain why the need to be seen on someone elses screen trumps their want to play a video game the way they want?

[Awha]

I don't know about you, but I have this in-irl function installed that, when I see something I don't like, allows me to move my eyeballs in such a way so I don't see it anymore. It's pretty high tech. Really new stuff. And if it's in a video game where maybe I can't turn my eyeballs away or else I can't see the screen, I have this thing called a hand that lets me turn the camera in-game so the thing isn't on screen anymore.

I tend to try and not let irl and game aspect bleed together. So I have a hard time seeing the how each is equivalent. We are playing a video that allows us to do things we cannot do in the real world, it is an experience unlike any other it is a social but also a personal one. Unlike the real world it is easy to create a feature that allows people to so called police what content they see on their screen without having any tangable impact on the other persons experience in the general sense of gameplay. Sure my actions may have a personal impact but once again they are also free to use the tools provided to police ther expereince so they do not have to run into me.

It is a game, it has not baring in the real world t the very least in my eyes they are two different worlds with different customs and experiences. I would never smoke IRL, but I would love to have a smokin emote in game. I am extremely anti social, and any personal interaction with someone IRL most people are to pick up on the fact I am on the spectrum and cater their behavior accordingly. In game it happens but not as frequently.

So sure I can look away IRL, but this is not IRL if a system could be put in place to avoid it why not? I mean one in theory could say it could reduce hate since as they saying goes out of sight out of mind. If someone does not have to see an aspect they do not enjoy then that aspect may not even register in their mind and maybe just maybe they will run into someone and have an enjoyable experience with someone they probably would not even give the time of day. Especially if they make the sytem an all of nothing toggle.

Also depends on the person, one of my triggers regarding my ASD is hyper focus, if zone in and even if I wish to turn it on I will focus on that one thing for hours unable to think of or do anything else. Granted what someone is wearing is very low on my list of stuff to care about. Though I am a fan of providing more options to players to influence their own experience because I view giving people more options to avoid things they do not like increases civility across the board.

Idk, I truly think I am just dense or dumb, because no matter how I see it if you remove any social bias and simply look at it from a QoL aspect, all this feature does is provide players more personal agency over their own experience.

Removed my hypothetical not sure how to word it properly.

What I was trying to set up was a hypothetical world where the roles were revereed SE released an outfit that in todays climate on the mogstation that most would see as inappropriate for whatever reason, and SE refused to remove it being as it sold well and glam in importance aspect of the game, a true end game. So people that were against the outfit voiced for a means to hide said outfit only on their screen, not trying to take away from those that enjoy the outfit just wanting to not have to see it for whatever reason ( I used a horrible type of outfit that has years of hate behind it but that was wrong.) would people still be against this idea.

My original sitution went to far, and I am sorry, I let myself get carried away since it felt like a personal attack (which it was not) on me because I was in support of an idea that many felt was inherently bigtory in nature and I felt as if people may have seen those that support it also as such.

I do not think anyone is claiming that "Everyone who supports this, is a bigot"
Although it is clear that a noticeable handful are.

Rather, we are saying "This feature would shield and be used by bigots to be allowed to stay comfortable in their bigotry"

No, the feature on it´s own is not bigoted but you would have to be blind not to realize why is it so requested since the last patch.

I do get where you are coming from but I will be honest then I must be blind because I do not think it is fair to make a claim about a persons motivations because of a suggestion they made of have made. In the end we can only assume what the motivate was behind it. For me coming up with a motivation just because the timing or the nature of the request is unfair and akin to viewing the person as guilty until proven innocent. Without more info we are unable to safely make that assumption, sure we can have our opinions but I do not think we should let our opionions based around an emotion reponse overshadow an idea that could very well enhance the player expereince for many.

As many have said a tool is just a tool.

The conversation recently, because someone else brought it in that direction, moved to how someone wanting to remove traces of men wearing dresses is bigotry. There is concern that being able to do this enables people to pretend certain types of people do not exist even if these people did absolutely nothing wrong.

You have to admit it's a bit concerning when someone wants to remove the individuality of others because they are intolerant of people not conforming to strict gender roles. Not because they genuinely feel an outfit is very lore breaking.

As I said before I understand not wanting to see lore breaking outfits, but a person in a dress is not lore breaking. If women wearing dresses is lore appropriate, then why is it not the case for men as well?

If I may ask why does it have to be viewed like that? As many have said it could just be a difference in taste nothing more nothing less. We have to fill in the gaps to come up with the conclusion that it is it because someone wants to remove the individuallity of others. I am not lie and say sure maybe people would use the feature for that purpose but we cannot say for certain that is the case, in end it is an assumption. Should we throw an entire idea out the window that could enhance the game player experience of others? A lot of the blacklash against the idea is rooted in assumptions. People would have to assume that majority would use the feature thus not giving them a reason to care about how they look. Would have to assume the reason someone not want to see a person in a certain outfit because they are either a bigot, in tolerate, or wish to strip away someones individuality. Couldn't it simply just come down to the fact they just do not want to have to see X. Akin to people just not wanting to see f bombs in chat?

[Penthea]

And in game there are situations in which this is inconvenient or impossible such as ingame cutscenes

Considering the high amount of cutscenes in the game, there are only a small number in which you are forced to look at other player's glams, and most of them are super short. Also there's nothing stopping you from focusing on something else on the screen or just looking away from it.

Yes I do know msq roulette cutscenes are long and you cannot skip them...but sometimes people wear silly glams because they feel the content is super boring and they're trying to find some way to shake up the monotony of it. If msq roulette was very compelling, this would happen less.

I honestly think msq roulette instances should be altered to solo duties but that's another conversation that is quite off-topic.

or common areas with no alternate angles.

Genuinely puzzled by this one. The only times I cannot move my camera are during cutscenes, or interacting with things such as a retainer bell. I can't think of a location in the game where you cannot move your camera if you're not interacting with something. Please inform me of them because I am truly at a loss as to where these locations are.

You are ignoring people those people who wish to use certain settings and areas for their RP or gameplay and don't wish to walk through town with their camera pointed at the ground.

If you need to walk through town with your camera pointed at the ground in order to avoid seeing glams you dislike then I can only assume that you are excessively fussy about what people wear. Most players are very well dressed.

Explain why the need to be seen on someone elses screen trumps their want to play a video game the way they want?

The conversation recently, because someone else brought it in that direction, moved to how someone wanting to remove traces of men wearing dresses is bigotry. There is concern that being able to do this enables people to pretend certain types of people do not exist even if these people did absolutely nothing wrong.

You have to admit it's a bit concerning when someone wants to remove the individuality of others because they are intolerant of people not conforming to strict gender roles. Not because they genuinely feel an outfit is very lore breaking.

As I said before I understand not wanting to see lore breaking outfits, but a person in a dress is not lore breaking. If women wearing dresses is lore appropriate, then why is it not the case for men as well?

[Krotoan]

Considering the high amount of cutscenes in the game, there are only a small number in which you are forced to look at other player's glams, and most of them are super short. Also there's nothing stopping you from focusing on something else on the screen or just looking away from it.

Yes I do know msq roulette cutscenes are long and you cannot skip them...but sometimes people wear silly glams because they feel the content is super boring and they're trying to find some way to shake up the monotony of it. If msq roulette was very compelling, this would happen less.

I honestly think msq roulette instances should be altered to solo duties but that's another conversation that is quite off-topic.

Genuinely puzzled by this one. The only times I cannot move my camera are during cutscenes, or interacting with things such as a retainer bell. I can't think of a location in the game where you cannot move your camera if you're not interacting with something. Please inform me of them because I am truly at a loss as to where these locations are.

IF you want a certain backdrop or view and someone with a undesirable glamour walks in and ruins the shot (for you) then you would have to change your desirable angle to accommodate for them possibly several times if they're moving. Telling someone "well just don't look at that part of the screen" isn't particularly more of a compelling argument than "don't think about it".

If you need to walk through town with your camera pointed at the ground in order to avoid seeing glams you dislike then I can only assume that you are excessively fussy about what people wear. Most players are very well dressed.

And? Some people are picky. Why isn't this a problem just because you think they're fussy? This doesn't sound any different than someone being absolutely particular about how they appear on others screens. Why do you have to worry about how you appear on EVERYONES screen?

The conversation recently, because someone else brought it in that direction, moved to how someone wanting to remove traces of men wearing dresses is bigotry. There is concern that being able to do this enables people to pretend certain types of people do not exist even if these people did absolutely nothing wrong.

You have to admit it's a bit concerning when someone wants to remove the individuality of others because they are intolerant of people not conforming to strict gender roles. Not because they genuinely feel an outfit is very lore breaking.

As I said before I understand not wanting to see lore breaking outfits, but a person in a dress is not lore breaking. If women wearing dresses is lore appropriate, then why is it not the case for men as well?

And while I understand there are people out there who don't wish to see things for particularly hateful reasons, there are people out there who just don't wish to see things because they find them unsightly or immersion breaking (lore is very different) . Both very personal things that cannot necessarily be said to be bigotry or intolerance. Why do their particular tastes not matter?

[AHelpingPaw]

I do not think anyone is claiming that "Everyone who supports this, is a bigot"
Although it is clear that a noticeable handful are.

Rather, we are saying "This feature would shield and be used by bigots to be allowed to stay comfortable in their bigotry"

No, the feature on it´s own is not bigoted but you would have to be blind not to realize why is it so requested since the last patch.

[Penthea]

IF you want a certain backdrop or view and someone with a undesirable glamour walks in and ruins the shot (for you) then you would have to change your desirable angle to accommodate for them possibly several times if they're moving. Telling someone "well just don't look at that part of the screen" isn't particularly more of a compelling argument than "don't think about it".

You can remove other players from the screenshot with gpose.

However I understand that you can't fine pick things to a degree you may want because you may want to remove only some players, not all of them.

A solution for this would be gposing pausing absolutely all movement while it is active. Essentially it would make gpose only capture what it saw the moment you activated it. That way other players cannot ruin your screenshot by coming into the shot.

Players can ruin a screenshot even if they're in lore appropriate gear. For example if I wanted to take a screenshot of a bunch of ladies in dresses, a player in full plate coming into view could completely ruin it for me because then the main subjects of the image no longer match the way I would like. This is why I proprose the above solution to your screenshot issue.

And while I understand there are people out there who don't wish to see things for particularly hateful reasons, there are people out there who just don't wish to see things because they find them unsightly or immersion breaking (lore is very different) . Both very personal things that cannot necessarily be said to be bigotry or intolerance. Why do their particular tastes not matter?

I did not say their tastes don't matter. If anything I'm advocating for everyone's personal taste in their own wardrobe to matter enough that they cannot be removed. While you are advocating that your taste matters to the point that you should be able to remove the style of a player that doesn't align with it.

Again I point out that I would be okay with glam removal if the glams are replaced by modest outfits (because some players are creeps, which I explained many many pages ago), but this would not fix your screenshot issue because glams are most certainly not the only thing that can ruin a screenshot.

I take it from your lack of response to my question about what areas prevent camera movement means no such areas exist. Perhaps I didn't understand what you actually meant.

[Ivellior]

It's a feature that reduces visual clutter from the game. Just like the options to hide other battle effects of other people. Noone wants to have their eyes strained with all the variations of <X> metalic dye.

I do not think anyone is claiming that "Everyone who supports this, is a bigot"
Although it is clear that a noticeable handful are.

Rather, we are saying "This feature would shield and be used by bigots to be allowed to stay comfortable in their bigotry"

No, the feature on it´s own is not bigoted but you would have to be blind not to realize why is it so requested since the last patch.

This is completely absurd. People play games to have fun and get away from all the shitty politics of real life. Because their fun (ie no visual clutter or skimpy outfits) clashes with your fun means they are bigots? The game doesn't exist to cater to left wing idelogists.

If people want an optional feature to remove glamour there is absolutely no reason not to ask for it. Heck they can ask for a feature to turn all lala's to hyur and it would be still be fine. You have absolutely no right to try and shut them down because it doesn't fit your ideology.

[Barachim]

Heck they can ask for a feature to turn all lala's to hyur and it would be still be fine.

Alright, time to shift our focus. This needs to be a new priority now. The Lala Toggle.

[Krotoan]

You can remove other players from the screenshot with gpose.

However I understand that you can't fine pick things to a degree you may want because you may want to remove only some players, not all of them.

A solution for this would be gposing pausing absolutely all movement while it is active. Essentially it would make gpose only capture what it saw the moment you activated it. That way other players cannot ruin your screenshot by coming into the shot.

Players can ruin a screenshot even if they're in lore appropriate gear. For example if I wanted to take a screenshot of a bunch of ladies in dresses, a player in full plate coming into view could completely ruin it for me because then the main subjects of the image no longer match the way I would like. This is why I proprose the above solution to your screenshot issue.

I wasn't particularly speaking about screenshots, but hanging out in common areas in general. While I absolutely cannot expect people running through town to constantly fit my personal story, I'd love to eliminate certain very jarring visuals from charging through my RP sitdowns.

I did not say their tastes don't matter. If anything I'm advocating for everyone's personal taste in their own wardrobe to matter enough that they cannot be removed. While you are advocating that your taste matters to the point that you should be able to remove the style of a player that doesn't align with it.

Which you aren't. Not in any way perceivable to them.

Again I point out that I would be okay with glam removal if the glams are replaced by modest outfits (because some players are creeps, which I explained many many pages ago), but this would not fix your screenshot issue because glams are most certainly not the only thing that can ruin a screenshot.

I take it from your lack of response to my question about what areas prevent camera movement means no such areas exist. Perhaps I didn't understand what you actually meant.

As I've established, not a screenshot issue, more of a overworld presence problem. And yes, there are no areas that prevent camera movement, but there are angles and scenes I'd like to sit in that cannot be gotten from just another angle to exclude things I don't want to see.

I do not think anyone is claiming that "Everyone who supports this, is a bigot"
Although it is clear that a noticeable handful are.

Rather, we are saying "This feature would shield and be used by bigots to be allowed to stay comfortable in their bigotry"

No, the feature on it´s own is not bigoted but you would have to be blind not to realize why is it so requested since the last patch.

Just because a feature would be approved by bigots doesn't eliminate its use to those who aren't.

[Dan4077]

I'm not too worried about the idea of people quitting over strangers no longer being able to see their glamour. A lot of the people who swore up and down that they were going to quit over the lack of male viera, for instance, continued to play the game and even purchased Shadowbringers. It's usually a hollow threat.

That was also a far bigger storm than this. That aside, the accusations of 'bigotry' are getting mighty tiresome. Not wanting to see silly glamour or men in dresses isn't a case of bigotry. It's a case of personal taste. Please stop trying to cheapen actual cases of bigotry by falsely attributing the term to any and every inconvenience or disagreement in opinion.

That was just a race this is completely different, their are people on this game completely dedicated to character creation. And no its not a big storm because we know this feature will never come, ever. Because of the mog station outfits and such. And there is a reason why people run around saying "glamour true end game" cause its pretty much true.