It's time (Option to Hide other players Glamour)

[Awha]

You serious act as if I am making you stare at my privates. And on top of that Im not MAKING you or anyone stare at me so don't be trying to pull that lame excuse. glamour is endgame is not just a meme, its true to a very high degree. quite frankly if there was a feature added to the game it would lose people. and I doubt HIGHLY that people be like, wow a feature that defaults your glam, that makes me want to grind hours, pay irl money to stare at myself. No at that point id play a single player rpg where there is no one to interfere and i could just mod. That is just stupid, you are in an mmo for Fs sake. You and all these people KNEW what they were getting into. And they had the choice to say yes to buying or no. and if this game blocked glam I wouldnt have bought it. Any person thats even seen and mmo knows that people will find ways to make whacky ass outfits to run around in. I don't support time being wasted on such a dumb feature that counters one of the main reasons many play MMOs at that point they might as well just shoot themselves in the foot a few times.

Truth be told we have no means to know for sure how many people would leave or stay if this feature was added, so arguing from that point is sort of impossible since both sides can say feature would cause x amount of people to leave or stay, or would impact x amount of people. At this point as you and many others have mentioned this is not a matter of convincing others people have picked their side.

I get you do not like the feature but if I may ask could you put that aside for a moment and brainstorm possible ways that you could tolerate such a feature? I am sure a middle ground that someone like yourself that is so against the idea could stomach a feature such as this. Like what exactly are your issues outside people not being able to see what your character looks like, or is that the only reason and nothing can be done that would be an acceptable compermise because no option regarding altering glam exists that does not change how your character is seen on another persons screen, outside of making it so if someone blacklists the glam they infact blacklist you and yourself no longer appear on their screen. Which I could see causing many issues.

At this point I do think we can look past the personal and modality aspect since those are subjective in nature, and why not for the fun of it just spit ball ideas as to how a system like this could work.

There is none, the moment you can alter "my" character. I'm done. That is the entire point it is "my" character. I designed my character to play in a "fantasy" world where I see all types of people even ones in outfits I completely hate and don't want to look at. Unfortunately for people MMOs are made to "SOMEWHAT" mimic the real world but change its theme. Adding magic,monsters, and cool stories. And you get to do cool stuff and look cool or w.e around others. I'd drop the game and friends of mine agree so its at LEAST not just me who thinks this.

Sorry did not see your second post after I already made mine. More or less you answered my question. That is fair, I tend to personally seperate the real world and the gaming world I do this in this game that I would never do outside, like care to a degree what my character looks like. IRL I have multiple versions of the same outfit and suit since I personally do not like having to think about what I am going to wear. Never smoked or drank a day in my life but I would love a smoking emote for my character. I guess that is the divide here at least between you and me, I do not see this as a world that mimics the real world in any way in my ways, it is a sandbox where people be what they want and do what they want within the rules of the game world.

He is free to look elsewhere. Just like IRL. I don't see the issue, considering XIV is a visually busy game.

What's next, clothing people you deem ugly in Burqas because you do not want to see them?
You're basically asking for the ingame equivalent.



Only option I see, that would keep DEV efforts appropriately limited, is changing every character into AF gear when the option is enabled.
That is done client side (since it is not character/item specific) and does not affect server performance.

Implementing a filter on "inappropriate" items would open pandoras Box and initiate a neverending war because everyone defines "inappropriate" differently.
Doubt many would like that though because the game world would look extremely boring.

Please forgive me I do not intend to speak for others, but from what I can tell many of us that are for theidea have a clear divide between the game world and real world, and from a personal level I think a major reason I think the disagreement is being formed between the two factions is because one has that divide and the other does not to a degree. Not saying people think the game world is a 1 to 1 comparison, but when you give examples like that my brain cannot comprehend the point you are trying to make. Not sure if it is beause I am dumb or because I am on the spectrum, I do not see any equivalent compersion between any IRL situation and an in game one. They are two different worlds in my eyes, and thus should not be compared.

As for your idea that went along with my primary idea it would be an all or nothing toggle that put people in AF or a basic black robe whatever a general universal outfit, since I do agree when people use words like inappropirate it does carry a stimga of judgment. I do get what people mean by inappropirate though I do not think they mean it from a universal stand point but mostly from a personal one. Like they find a certain action inappropriate due to a personal reason.

Sorry had to edit this post, forum limit.

Because despite the calls for "Leaving moral issues out of this" the fact is that a noticeable amount of people supporting these changes seem to do so for very moral and gendered reasons, which is something negative.

This is not much different from how so many people seem to suddenly think "Romance should not be the focus of the story" once they are "threatened" with the inclusion of LGBT romances in their favorite shows, games or media.

It´s a very thinly veiled and poorly disguised strain of bigotry pretending to be neutral concern.

Does this apply to everyone supporting these potential changes?
No, it does not, but it includes enough to be concerning.

And it acts as a very convenient shield under which bigots can be allowed to be comfortable being bigots and not having to adapt to a more progressive society.

I get what you are saying, but as a community we can look past the supposed bigotry aspect since that requires a personal assumption on our part. Sure that might fuel their reason for the idea, but they very well could simply not like to see men in dresses which in itsef is not inherently wrong, unless a person outright makes the claim that it is for a bigotry reason I do not think it is fair to use that against the idea or the person. Sort innocent until proven guilty if that makes sense, sorry post limit so editing my one post for now.

[Granyala]

I don't know, just the more the thread goes, the more stupid it's starting to seem to me.

Of course it's a completely dumb idea.
So is the idea of running around and fighting in a frog costume.

The ideas just seem dumb to different people.

[AHelpingPaw]

Why does it matter if someone else doesn't want to see it and has the option not to?

Because despite the calls for "Leaving moral issues out of this" the fact is that a noticeable amount of people supporting these changes seem to do so for very moral and gendered reasons, which is something negative.

This is not much different from how so many people seem to suddenly think "Romance should not be the focus of the story" once they are "threatened" with the inclusion of LGBT romances in their favorite shows, games or media.

It´s a very thinly veiled and poorly disguised strain of bigotry pretending to be neutral concern.

Does this apply to everyone supporting these potential changes?
No, it does not, but it includes enough to be concerning.

And it acts as a very convenient shield under which bigots can be allowed to be comfortable being bigots and not having to adapt to a more progressive society.

[Granyala]

but if someone DOES NOT want to see what you've done

He is free to look elsewhere. Just like IRL. I don't see the issue, considering XIV is a visually busy game.

What's next, clothing people you deem ugly in Burqas because you do not want to see them?
You're basically asking for the ingame equivalent.

At this point I do think we can look past the personal and modality aspect since those are subjective in nature, and why not for the fun of it just spit ball ideas as to how a system like this could work.

Only option I see, that would keep DEV efforts appropriately limited, is changing every character into AF gear when the option is enabled.
That is done client side (since it is not character/item specific) and does not affect server performance.

Implementing a filter on "inappropriate" items would open pandoras Box and initiate a neverending war because everyone defines "inappropriate" differently.
Doubt many would like that though because the game world would look extremely boring.

[Theodric]

I'm not too worried about the idea of people quitting over strangers no longer being able to see their glamour. A lot of the people who swore up and down that they were going to quit over the lack of male viera, for instance, continued to play the game and even purchased Shadowbringers. It's usually a hollow threat.

That was also a far bigger storm than this. That aside, the accusations of 'bigotry' are getting mighty tiresome. Not wanting to see silly glamour or men in dresses isn't a case of bigotry. It's a case of personal taste. Please stop trying to cheapen actual cases of bigotry by falsely attributing the term to any and every inconvenience or disagreement in opinion.

[Dan4077]

I've been skipping through this, but to my understanding, people are suggesting that only the person seeing the glamour would see a "censored" (for lack of a better word) Glamour, and not what the person actually created. So if that's the case, why do other people care if someone doesn't see your glamour? You'd still see it wouldn't you? Isn't that all that matters, if you like it? Why does it matter if someone else doesn't want to see it and has the option not to?

Honestly, this doesn't sound any different to me than the people saying "Get rid of genderlocked items."

Gee idk, roleplaying? your character has a theme? you like people to see your personal taste? maybe like to show off your hard work? Though some make these things out to be a crime. It is an mmo there is a reason why the majority of them DONT implement this feature. Cause being your own created thing in another world is a big allure of an MMO. If i cared SO highly about immersion the LAST thing i would play is an mmo. They are KNOWN for having huge amounts of immersion breaking things. Not to mention you are dealing with other players. The only way I could see a compromise is that they make a complete solo mode for story then they can immerse away. I do not care if you are out and about and see something you do not like you literally BOUGHT an mmo and then complain about other people characters. It is like sticking your hand in fire and being like AH IT'S TOO HOT!

[Penthea]

That aside, the accusations of 'bigotry' are getting mighty tiresome. Not wanting to see silly glamour or men in dresses isn't a case of bigotry. It's a case of personal taste. Please stop trying to cheapen actual cases of bigotry by falsely attributing the term to any and every inconvenience or disagreement in opinion.

Not wanting to see a man in a dress isn't bigotry. Advocating for a way to essentially delete them from your presence is bigotry.

Just because a person may be unaware that you have entirely removed the defining style choices for their character doesn't make the sentiment behind it any less awful. It simply allows a person to be intolerant without repercussions.

There is a vast difference between disliking something and wanting to find a way to completely remove any trace of it.

I completely understand not wanting to see something you consider lore breaking, but there is nothing lore breaking about a person wearing a dress.

[DumdogsWorld]

Not wanting to see a man in a dress isn't bigotry. Advocating for a way to essentially delete them from your presence is bigotry.

You know what? I'm not even going to try and deny it, because obviously the definition of the word bigot has changed. Based on what people call bigotry these days, the word no longer means what the dictionary says it means. Apparently not wanting something in my house but and yet not caring whether or not it exists anywhere else is now bigotry.

In that case....I am a bigot, and I am proud.

[Doozer]

Not wanting to see a man in a dress isn't bigotry. Advocating for a way to essentially delete them from your presence is bigotry.

Just because a person may be unaware that you have entirely removed the defining style choices for their character doesn't make the sentiment behind it any less awful. It simply allows a person to be intolerant without repercussions.

There is a vast difference between disliking something and wanting to find a way to completely remove any trace of it.

I completely understand not wanting to see something you consider lore breaking, but there is nothing lore breaking about a person wearing a dress.

Exactly, all of this.

Saying it's lore-breaking to see a man in a dress is a lazy excuse to fall back on. There have been stupid costumes, mounts, etc. in the game for years. This iteration of FFXIV has been around for almost 7 years. With all the nonsense and unrealistic things in the game, you're telling me that it's a total coincidence that this thread popped up right when they were adding the ability for men to wear the wedding dress outfit? That's unlikely. Especially since the OP even mentioned it, meaning the idea was fresh in their mind when they made this thread.

I've seen a lot of people be happy that things are getting unrestricted (my boyfriend being one of them), and to give people more options to express themselves only to say "actually, make sure people can just block that client side because they're offended by a man in a dress" instead of teaching people to grow up and just avert their eyes is just plain stupid. I can't imagine what it's like being upset by someone's clothes.

You know what? I'm not even going to try and deny it, because obviously the definition of the word bigot has changed. Based on what people call bigotry these days, the word no longer means what the dictionary says it means. Apparently not wanting something in my house but and yet not caring whether or not it exists anywhere else is now bigotry.

In that case....I am a bigot, and I am proud.

Zoinks, mate.

[Doozer]

Also worth noting, is that the fear of men in dresses isn't just homophobic, it's also transphobic too. It equates x clothing/actions/etc. with x gender, plus the whole 'man in a dress' thing has been a constant punchline to make fun of and justify hating transgender women.