It's time (Option to Hide other players Glamour)

[Packetdancer]

What about this, the ultimate compromise of compromises:

An option to change someone into a set basic char for each job. So you won't just see character in question with different gear, you'll see a completely different character that will be the same one every time you use this option (for each job). This way, you won't be changing how a character presents itself, you change the whole character. The character may even look like companions from MSQ. Except for their motions and combat, they no longer represent the player's character in any way.

As I noted earlier in the thread, I have some Serious Yikes about this idea if you're just replacing people with the default for their race/gender/background.

If you glance over at my character appearance to the left of this post, you will note that she has fairly dark skin; if you look at the default Hyuran highlander female in chargen, you will note that she does not.

If you think this thread is heated, just imagine the comments on something like that. Whether or not you think that changing someone's clothing is an issue, I do not think it would make for good publicity if someone could write up an article with a headline for Kotaku or Polygon of "SquareEnix lets you turn FFXIV into a White Supremacist's Paradise: new patch lets you remove all dark-skinned characters with the press of a button."

In the end, the debate about clothing in glamour is one that's inherently argued wholly from personal emotional positions. And both sides can each see the other as lacking in empathy and/or willfully ignoring their own concerns. After all, your position, which is [for/against] this feature, is clearly the reasonable one—as anyone can see, while the people arguing [against/for] this feature are clearly just being selfish because they are restricting personal choice by refusing to respect your wholly-reasonable personal preference. Clearly, they are lacking in empathy, and being [precious snowflakes/bigots], or whatever other dismissive (and possibly reductive) term of insult best brushes the opposing position away.

We're never going to reach agreement because both viewpoints are wholly valid, and there's literally no objective basis to say that one viewpoint is 'more valid' than the other. Anyone—on either side—who says their opinion is objectively the 'right' one is being willfully blind, because there is literally no part of this discussion which is remotely objective.

But trying to find a middle ground by allowing people to replace all characters—of all skin tones—with the fair-skinned defaults? That one, I can say with reasonable surety that I do not see any way in which the resulting public perception ends up being an overall good one. Regardless of the intent behind such an idea.

And I guarantee you if you made one of the set characters be dark-skinned, there'd be a contingent who howled about how that's not their character and it's all the fault of the "Social Justice Warriors" ruining gaming.

(Which is silly. I mean, just speaking for myself, I am clearly predominantly a Social Justice White Mage; I haven't even leveled Marauder high enough to get a Warrior soul crystal! If I am going to be tanking, obviously I'm a Social Justice Dark Knight!)

[Awha]

As I noted earlier in the thread, I have some Serious Yikes about this idea if you're just replacing people with the default for their race/gender/background.

If you glance over at my character appearance to the left of this post, you will note that she has fairly dark skin; if you look at the default Hyuran highlander female in chargen, you will note that she does not.

If you think this thread is heated, just imagine the comments on something like that. Whether or not you think that changing someone's clothing is an issue, I do not think it would make for good publicity if someone could write up an article with a headline for Kotaku or Polygon of "SquareEnix lets you turn FFXIV into a White Supremacist's Paradise: new patch lets you remove all dark-skinned characters with the press of a button."

In the end, the debate about clothing in glamour is one that's inherently argued wholly from personal emotional positions. And both sides can each see the other as lacking in empathy and/or willfully ignoring their own concerns. After all, your position, which is [for/against] this feature, is clearly the reasonable one—as anyone can see, while the people arguing [against/for] this feature are clearly just being selfish because they are restricting personal choice by refusing to respect your wholly-reasonable personal preference. Clearly, they are lacking in empathy, and being [precious snowflakes/bigots], or whatever other dismissive (and possibly reductive) term of insult best brushes the opposing position away.

We're never going to reach agreement because both viewpoints are wholly valid, and there's literally no objective basis to say that one viewpoint is 'more valid' than the other. Anyone—on either side—who says their opinion is objectively the 'right' one is being willfully blind, because there is literally no part of this discussion which is remotely objective.

But trying to find a middle ground by allowing people to replace all characters—of all skin tones—with the fair-skinned defaults? That one, I can say with reasonable surety that I do not see any way in which the resulting public perception ends up being an overall good one. Regardless of the intent behind such an idea.

And I guarantee you if you made one of the set characters be dark-skinned, there'd be a contingent who howled about how that's not their character and it's all the fault of the "Social Justice Warriors" ruining gaming.

(Which is silly. I mean, just speaking for myself, I am clearly predominantly a Social Justice White Mage; I haven't even leveled Marauder high enough to get a Warrior soul crystal! If I am going to be tanking, obviously I'm a Social Justice Dark Knight!)

I agree with your post, it did get me thinking am I just out of touch with the world this is regarding the part regarding the negative press around White Supremacist's Paradise, I do get this meant to be an exgrateration but I could see gaming sites write articles like that.

I must be out of touch because I generally do not see what is the problem if someone wanted to make their game world into a White Supremacist's Paradise, because at the end of the day we will never really know why they made the choice to use the option unless said person streams, takes screen shots, or lets others know. Even then if they did any of those all it would let us know is that they have the option enabled but we would not be able to tell the reasoning behind enabling the choice. I get where people are coming from, and as others have said it might just boi down to a lack of empathy but I have a hard time feeling bad per-se over something that outside of certain circumstances most likely no one would ever know.

It feels kind of fear mongering so to speak. Do not get me worng this is not aimed towards you just a general feeling I get.

[PharisHanasaki]

Interesting, I am very late to the discussion, but for me it's the uniqueness of each character that I like in MMOs. It was a very long time ago when everyone would have the same look and we would yearn for some level of customization.

But maybe you'd rather have this

[Awha]

Interesting, I am very late to the discussion, but for me it's the uniqueness of each character that I like in MMOs. It was a very long time ago when everyone would have the same look and we would yearn for some level of customization.

But maybe you'd rather have this

Well one problem I see if the lack of Lalafell, other then that I could get behind that. :P

[SturmChurro]

Well one problem I see if the lack of Lalafell, other then that I could get behind that. :P

Well, a caveat for the clothing ban will be lalafell player characters being excluded from the game. They will be reskinned to a generic Elezen.

[Awha]

Well, a caveat for the clothing ban will be lalafell player characters being excluded from the game. They will be reskinned to a generic Elezen.

Well after thinking about being the last of mine kind would be rather refreshing.

[YellowCrystarium]

Interesting, I am very late to the discussion, but for me it's the uniqueness of each character that I like in MMOs. It was a very long time ago when everyone would have the same look and we would yearn for some level of customization.

But maybe you'd rather have this

I'd enjoy this. It beats seeing another Viera with face 1 and long over the shoulder hair dressed in a bikini or 2B leggings with the pagos jacket and shirt and the 2B stilettos.

[PharisHanasaki]

I'd enjoy this. It beats seeing another Viera with face 1 and long over the shoulder hair dressed in a bikini or 2B leggings with the pagos jacket and shirt and the 2B stilettos.

We all know Vieras wear the viera race bottoms so they can show us their bums.

On topic, and out of curiosity, why?

[Vahlnir]

We all know Vieras wear the viera race bottoms so they can show us their bums.

On topic, and out of curiosity, why?

It's mostly for eye candy I'd imagine, but not being quite as encumbered while moving through the forest is probably another reason for its existence lore wise. Though to be fair, we mostly see Viera NPCs in other tribal wear in combination with the racial high heels. The racial gear seems to largely be a player character exclusive thing aside from Fran, unless that is a more common outfit on the Source.

[PharisHanasaki]

It's mostly for eye candy I'd imagine, but not being quite as encumbered in the forest is probably another reason for its existence lore wise. Though to be fair, we mostly see Viera NPCs in other tribal wear in combination with the racial high heels.

The Why, was directed at YellowCristarium, mostly referring to why would he prefer an army of lookalikes rather than seeing vieras with face 1 and 2b clothes.