5.0 WAR is a disappointment

[whiskeybravo]

Bottom line is, there is absolutely no reason to keep NF from being able to be used on yourself.

Sure there is. It's a support-oriented ability that was (poorly) designed for use in group play. Clearly the intention was for it to be a support ability or they wouldn't have locked it to RI's recast and demanded a party member target requirement to use it.

I'm not saying they should nerf NF, but if it only had 1/4 of the healing power nobody would give an eff about being able to cast it without a party member. That's the problem. It's simply too good at what it does and people want to be able to use it more freely because it is, in fact, so good.

If they're going to take away the target requirement then they might as well take away the support aspect altogether. You only select a target now because you have to. If you actually want to use it for support then nothing changes, still have to target someone. "But that's so much effort!!"

I'm all for giving WAR some self healing action to assist in solo duties and extra mitigation, I just don't think using NF is the best way to do it because it diminishes the dynamic between it and RI even more. I mean, I'd rather them change RI to support and have NF as our self-heal a la 2.0 Inner Beast. Or nix the party support altogether and give us our damage back.

And yes, I'm aware that I'm basically just arguing on principle. Sure I'd probably use NF a lot more often if it wasn't so clunky to use effectively, but I would also appreciate any self heal that's not clunky to use. What I'm trying to get at is if they're going to stick with the self OR party support dynamic for tank abilities, then do it so it's not so skewed in the opposite direction it's supposed to be (ie, that the "support" ability shouldn't be more effective on yourself than the "self" ability is)

[Lucy_Pyre]

What I would personally like to see is not to have Nascent Flash's party interaction removed entirely, rather, I want it to work like Dragon Sight. Let us cast it on ourselves if we so desire so that we can self heal in a pinch if, say, the entire party is dead and the boss is a few GCD's from dead. However I still want the ability to place it on a party member to remain. Alternatively they could also remove the secondary target effect from the ability entirely and have it function like Heart of Stone; i.e. we can use it on ourselves like normal, or, we can choose to instead place it on a party member and give them the full 50%-of-damage-dealt healing that NF currently gives to the user. I would prefer this change over the former, I think, because in savage/extreme there are plenty of fights that force tank swaps at various points in the fights, and when my OT takes aggro due to said forced swap I would quite like to be able to heal him in the same manner that I would heal myself. That said, however, I think that specific change would just be a flat (massive) buff to Nascent Flash; a buff that I don't think I can really justify giving to the skill with how powerful it already is.

[BluexBird]

snip

OK so a couple of things. First off, being able to cast it on yourself wouldn't stop NF from being the "support ability" that it currently is. I see the point you're making about it being linked with Raw Intuition, but that's still not a very good argument.

It sort of feels like you're trying to argue that because Raw Intuition is linked with NF, then you should never have a reason to use NF over Raw Intuition when you're alone. I disagree with this - there are times when I want to get extra mitigation from a tank buster, over being able to heal myself later. In fact, there are times where I NEED the extra 20% mitigation. I think this is a good option. It was like being able to switch to Defiance and use Inner Beast back in the day, when a healer was down and you didn't have enough HP to live through the incoming tank buster, despite having used Vengeance/Rampart/Thrill.

As for NF being "so good", I really don't see what your point is here. You're saying it's "so good" as if it's a game-breaking ability. It's not. It's a level 76 ability, it's supposed to be good. It's supposed to have impact. And right now, it does... but in cases where you're playing by yourself or trying to finish off the last 2% HP from a boss, it becomes useless. And I just don't see why it should have to be like that.

Here's another perspective - imagine if The Blackest Night or Clemency were only able to be used on party members. Maybe you can make a case towards TBN since it is tied to DRK's damage, but not Clemency.

[NyneSwordz]

Not sure why whisky keeps saying people will stop using nf as an ot ability if it has its target requirement removed. The action is so clunky people are still going to macro it and just add one line of code for target self. So nothing changes. Good to u for being able to use this clunky ass action without a macro and still able to get 3 cleaves in it.

Nf not being able to target self is a bigger problem in frontlines also. Although, feast is all SE cares about apparently.

War got the short end of the stick this xpac. Bad design all over, with bare minimum functionality/balance as the only goal. This was especially apparent in pvp early on when war never had to even touch combo button, and had effectively zero self heal in frontlines. But it was fine in feast cuz of healer, so it was all good... right?

Se showed no care for fun or interesting gameplay at all with war. Rushed it and it shows. At this point, debating nf is moot cuz they wont touch it til 6.0 so they dont have to work to keep things balanced.

[NyneSwordz]

Kinda like how sch launched without any aetherflow dps spender and had to throw away heals to hit aether again for mana. Its like no one at se played some of the jobs before launch or cared about how unfun or clunky some the changed they made are.

[BluexBird]

War got the short end of the stick this xpac. Bad design all over, with bare minimum functionality/balance as the only goal.

Wanna see something funny I noticed? xD Look at the stats on the Ruby Weapon items for DRK, PLD, and GNB. Now look at the WAR's one! Just think, someone had to come up with those stats.

[Shurrikhan]

Sure there is. It's a support-oriented ability that was (poorly) designed for use in group play.

Then we ought to see either of two paths:

1. Nascent Flash becomes more vital to support than to self-sustain, thus fitting in with other "support" abilities that are actually and/or solely used as such, or
2. They treat Nascent as the outlier it is, simply giving the choice between a brief Bloodbath (that can also target allies instead) or percentile mitigation.

[Ultimatecalibur]

I'm all for giving WAR some self healing action to assist in solo duties and extra mitigation, I just don't think using NF is the best way to do it because it diminishes the dynamic between it and RI even more. I mean, I'd rather them change RI to support and have NF as our self-heal a la 2.0 Inner Beast. Or nix the party support altogether and give us our damage back.

You do have a self-heal. Multiple even. Storm's Path, Thrill of Battle and Equilibrium are all self-heals.

Then we ought to see either of two paths:

1. Nascent Flash becomes more vital to support than to self-sustain, thus fitting in with other "support" abilities that are actually and/or solely used as such, or
2. They treat Nascent as the outlier it is, simply giving the choice between a brief Bloodbath (that can also target allies instead) or percentile mitigation.

Option 3: Raw Intuition is decrease to 10% mitigation but has the Bloodbath effect added.

The following option is one that Warriors will hate but make things as they are intended:
Option 4: Nascent Flash's self healing is removed insuring the Raw Intuition is used as the short mitigation and Nascent Flash as the party support buff.

[BluexBird]

Hey I'm really liking that option 3, when can we get it?

[Lucy_Pyre]

Option 3: Raw Intuition is decrease to 10% mitigation but has the Bloodbath effect added.

Bloodbath is only 20% of damage dealt converted to HP, Nascent Flash is 50% for the user. Even if you have 10% mitigation this would still leave RI inferior to Nascent. Frankly, I think the only viable solution to make both abilities useful in their own rights would be to unlink their cooldowns from one another, because unless RI either gets massively buffed, NF gets massively nerfed, or their cooldowns are no longer linked together, RI will keep its position of almost never being used due to almost never being superior to NF.