The Devs have no idea what they are doing with FFXIV’s crafting and economics..

[testname]

I don't think they were trolling you. Your post was just worded oddly. I'm going to guess that English is not your native language. It took me a few re-reads to get that "void 3x button" was your way of saying "they removed 3 specialist skills", which I agree makes specialists have only a stat/cp advantage over non-specialists and that one very situational skill (though I think its an interesting skill to be sure).

I am Sorry

The new skill for specialist is just one button, that is pressed 3x times if need ( for me that is just void button = no fun )

The thing about specialist before was ( paying attention to stack size , using whistle and other skills / too less CP ? there is that / short on durability? there is that or this )

The specialist had meaning to me, because of special additional skills

[Elamys]

I'm just gonna say that, as a longtime endgame crafter, I would like more challenging recipes, but as for rewards, unlike what OP says, I think cosmetic rewards are perfect. Because, as stated, better gear serves no purpose for crafting, while it's eminently useful for raiding. But a challenging recipe that rewards me with a fancy tool, a cool title, a barding, anything else? That's something I can put on and show off my skill as a crafter to other people. Why do you think people who clear Ultimate are fond of standing in Limsa with their weapon out, Ultimate Legend title on for all to see? It feels good to have something most people can't get, even if it doesn't offer better stats.

MAYBE a nice reward would be some recipes that I could sell to other players, but I already feel like people just look at crafting too much as just a way to make money, and not as something that can just be rewarding or fun to do on its own.

[Vidu]

I just want to be clear that I would like more challenging recipes myself aswell - but under certain conditions, probably different from what the OP wants (I cant really tell what they want, so maybe we end up agreeing after all):
My main condition would be that those challenges have to be "limited" in a way. What I mean by that is that I dont want a challenge each time I sit doen to craft something (just how I dont want a fighting challenge each time I log in) - I especially dont want a challenge when it comes to consumables, like food and potions. I'd be fine with keeping the current difficulty for alchemist and culinarian recipes and ramping it up a notch for the rest, though - its a very selfish reason, but I'm the one crafting most of the food etc. for my static. I dont want this turned into an incredibly annoying chore.
I also believe that crafted gear should be accessible to people - and it wont be if only a few people can make it. I'm upset myself each time a new patch hits and the new gear isnt selling for the 5+ millions as it used to on day one, but at the same time I know enough new-ish people or returning people who can use this gear as a stepping stone to skip an aweful grind. If crafting wants to be relevant, it needs to serve as many people as possible. Selling one piece of armor for 5 million gil just doesnt do that.

What I could imagine in terms of more difficult recipes are:
- locking mastercrafter books behind them again, like in ARR: A one time challenge, after that you get the reward of new recipes that are easier again
- weekly turn-ins: Kinda like the weekly deleviries we already have. Without a story, maybe, but with a special currency that can be spend on special rewards. You'd get a few challenge craft each week and special rewards for them, but not every (endgame) craft is now super hard.

In terms of rewards I feel that I've said my piece. I dont want gear with better stats as reward as long as I dont need that gear to make crafting easier or possible in the first place. What I'd like to see would be some of the following (in my mind those would be the special scrips rewards, one can dream):
- Minions of all crafting guildleaders
- Mounts that fit each of the crafters (...is a flying frying pan for cul to silly? Stuff like that)
- "Semi-Specialist-Crystals": They go into the same slot as a jobcrystal, offer a small boost to one stat (5-10 CP, maybe?) and add one of the elemental glows that certaon recipes have to each of your crafts, aka whenever you craft your recipes will get an elemental glow. They wont unlock specialist actions or recipes, though
- more intresting titles - currently we already have the Master[Crafter] for crafting 10k HQ-items with that class, could be more titles! The weekly turn-in could work like the ones we already have and give you a title once you've turned a certain number of items in
- to a degree: More recipes. Those should mainly be glamour-stuff (maybe things that we can craft for ourselves, even? But just that - not tradeable)

Long story short: I think most benefits of crafting should be accessible by as many people as possible - but it would be nice to get some limited challenges and some exclusive rewards (cosmetic ones just seem best to me) in. May Ishgard will bring that with the next itteration.

[Kytrin]

Are You trolling me ?

Compare specialists skills now and before

No, I definitely wasn't trolling you. I just couldn't work out what you were actually saying. Or if you were angry at the idea of them revisiting specialists again or not. Believe me, I know it's absolutely not the same now, and I was very disappointed when that happened. That's why I want them to take another look at it in the future. It was such a good idea and they gutted it.

[Kytrin]

- Mounts that fit each of the crafters (...is a flying frying pan for cul to silly? Stuff like that)

I'm sorry, I read that and immediately thought of my Russian Fairy Tales and Baba Yaga with her flying mortar and pestle!

[Liam_Harper]

You could see at expansion launch they had no idea what to do with us. All the skills we got fell into 2 categories. Miles overpowered and completely useless. It's like Yoshida had previously left crafting up to his crafter development team, but midway through Stormblood decided to butt in and force random ideas through. Or just fired the old team and got a new one. Either way things suddenly changed around when they nerfed the Ala Mhigan set and plummeted from there.

I onced asked what REWARDS hardcore crafters want. All I get is answers that contridict what they have said before and excuses cause the community really does not know. I am almost at the point of linking peoples silly posts where they go back on crap they have said just to watch them fumble for an explanation or dodge the topic entirely. Good example saying you dont care about gil in one thread then complaining about the value and the effect eaiser crafting as on value in another thread. If you dont care about gil then why the hell would you care about the value of the item!!!

Of course they do.

The reason being, that if you simply want to be really good at something, better than the average player, really have to work and grind to achieve something ...you're branded as an elitist show off. That's the sort of community this game has encouraged, in raids and other content too, wanting to accomplish something is generally shamed. Everyone should have access to everything.

Really, most of us just daydream of being the best master crafter, putting in lots of effort and stepping above the crowd. Feeling that sense of satisfaction after something difficult or grindy. But that's a bad thing. Only filthy show-offs want to be good at things. Everyone should have access to everything for no effort.

So they dance around the point and try to word it in a nicer way.

[Ryaz]

Actually, no one really cares when people want hard content. No one complained about Ultimate or having difficult crafts (just that RNG is not difficulty because you go do everything perfectly and still fail due to reasons outside your control). It's the condescending attitude of many of these players towards others who don't agree that causes friction.

[Elamys]

The reason being, that if you simply want to be really good at something, better than the average player, really have to work and grind to achieve something ...you're branded as an elitist show off.

I see people complain about this a lot but outside of a few bottom feeders in the general forums, I have never seen this attitude, especially not in game. Most people I have encountered are excited, or at the least, completely ambivalent about the addition of more challenging content and its rewards. In the communities I am involved in, most people respect the work that higher level players are putting in, recognize that it comes with rewards they may not be able to achieve without effort, and don't call them elitist.

Unless that person is actually acting like an elitist, which is where I think this complaint stems from: someone at a higher level of play acts like a jerk but thinks they're justified, so when they get called out for it, they say the community just wants everyone to have access to everything.

Like Vidu said, I don't need a challenge every time I craft. So, since they are adding expert recipes, it makes sense that the every day recipes are now a little simpler. The crafting changes have enabled way more people to craft and gather, when it seemed too daunting to get into for many people, and I applaud that, because I love crafting! I want other people to talk about it with!

But a lot of other veteran crafters hate this and it's mostly because they now have significantly more competition in the markets, and I suspect that's where a lot of these complaints ultimately stem from.

[Nandrolone]

But a lot of other veteran crafters hate this and it's mostly because they now have significantly more competition in the markets, and I suspect that's where a lot of these complaints ultimately stem from.

I’m personally getting kind of fed up with this same response. For starters, I like competition, it makes the marketboard more interesting and fun, and I know plenty of other vet crafters that enjoy competition. Here’s the problem though. We enjoy competition that knows what they are doing and knows how to play the market well, people that work hard at cranking out gear, not spamming a googled rotation macro with gear that cost less than 100k Gil. That’s like competing against a player that you hope eventually gets more skilled, but doesn’t.

That is why making too many things accessible, easy, and borderline mindless is an issue for us. (At least for me, anyway) I like competition, and I like a good fight. I can’t get that with hoards of new players spamming macros, using the same techniques, same strategies...day in and day out. It’s boring. FFXIV’s crafting endgame is boring.

[Kabooa]

Setting your own terms of your competition only highlights how little you actually want it.