The Devs have no idea what they are doing with FFXIV’s crafting and economics..

[Vidu]

lol at this point I am convinced you are trolling...my post above pretty much summarized what these people in general want. like I said earlier, ive noticed you constantly argue without rest, when it comes to people not liking the current state of crafting. and even when someone explains what it is that’s wrong with it, you still want to argue

these people deserve to get what they want out of the game, not just you lol i can see why testname said what she said...

I've read your post but I'm sorry to say that I'm still not sure what it is that you want - you're throwing so many things together there that I'm at a bit of a loss.

You seem to want something that makes you stand out - "bragging rights", so to speak. Something that "marks" you as a mastercrafter, similar to how Ultimate-weapons might be used to show off success in battle.
At the same time you want something that benefits you when it comes to the actual gameplay, aka crafting. This is were I wonder most: Do you want something that makes current crafting easier (aka: current gear can be crafted using gear that anyone can obtain, but its made easier if you get this "special gear") OR do you want recipes that you outright cant craft without the special gear? Or in other words: What would be the motivation to obtain this "better gear", this reward? Why should I want a better frying pan? What would you lock behind this?
Maybe our missunderstanding here stems from the point that I dont consider gear in itself a reward, its always something to achieve something - may that be looks (glamour), content made available in the first place (ilvl-locks for battle classes; crfatmanship/control requirements for crafters), content made easier (reaching sweetspots to use certain rotations etc.) or really just to show off.
I'm really confused by your claim that you want things to show off - but at the same time you dismiss stuff thats made for that purpose as not worthy rewards. You talk about difficulty, but want luck-based content back.

At the end of the day I would like to see more challenging crafting content aswell - it took me maybe 30 minutes to figure out a new macro for the new crafts this patch and 10 of those were spend on hunting down typos. I can see where our missunderstanding comes from, though: I enjoy a challenge for the challenges sake, I dont need a trophy at the end. Which ultimately seems to be what you're after...?

[Kytrin]

I've been reading through, and while I admit I'm a bit lost on what, specifically, OP wants in terms of reward besides better gear I did glean a few takeways:

1) OP and many other hardcore crafters are upset (not entirely unjustifiably) that crafting has become too easy. They want a challenge, and don't think the Expert recipes will cut it.

2) They also think the crafting relics and competition will not be worth the effort apparently? I'm kind of puzzled why, but okay I'll roll with that being a thing.

3) The newer or more casual crafters out there are confused over why easy crafting is bad, what would make a good challenge, and what kind of rewards people would rather have if the ones we have aren't good enough. And I can sorta see why they're confused. The answers have kind of been all over the place.

Personally, I don't mind that they made crafting more approachable for people. 80 levels is a lot of levels, particularly if you got omni, and craft grinding has never exactly had the benefit of roulettes, hunts, or other avenues to make the grind somewhat more enjoyable than custom deliveries and endlessly crafting items for leves, collectible turn in, or GC delivery. So I don't mind that they nerfed the lower levels at all really. Though I can understand why it's vaguely disconcerting to see people zoom through the levels in Ishgard when it took me much longer to do it the hard way. That might be a little too much nerf there.

That said, as a relatively hardcore crafter myself, I would also like to see some real challenge to my endgame crafting. The Expert recipes may provide that, at least as long as Ishgard is around, but long term I would personally like to see them revisit specialists. Back in HW especially, specialists had to be planned strategically and if you didn't have friends with specialties you didn't have, you had to plan how you were going to rotate your specialties to get what you wanted done. It was a pain, but it did require a modicum of strategy, and I liked that. I wouldn't mind going back to that either honestly.

More than that, I'd like to see them bring back some of the specialist abilities (or a version of them) and set up some requirements to use them. You want to make a specialist recipe? Okay. You need to get over to this particular workshop to initiate it, and you can't just macro craft it. You have to submit the materials and ONLY use your specialist skills to do it. Once you initiate the craft you have to be absolutely on point to get it done. Perhaps the craft starts with a random effect and you have to react to that with the correct skill in order to negate it and progress the craft? Perhaps you have to be absolutely on point with your sequence and timing or the craft could blow up, and the more you mess it up the likelier that gets? Perhaps you only have 30 seconds to do it in? Something along those lines. Make it hard, but not rng reliant, and the kind of thing that you CAN beat if you have the skill to. And if you don't... might need to practice your craft a bit more.

That's the kind of challenge I would like personally.

As for rewards, I'm perfectly happy with titles, mounts, and relics. Especially relics. I love the idea of taking a basic piece of armor and gradually sculpting it into something truly legendary. How much more hardcore crafting can you get than that?

Just my two gil.

[ElazulHP]

Call me lazy I don't care I like easy crafting tbh. It should be something I can do to relax with some music, audiobook, or Netflix on another monitor. THAT SAID hardcore crafters should not be ignored or shunned. There should be something for them and right now there really isn't. As to what that is I dunno. I sincerely doubt Ishgard Restoration leaderboards are going to be it. More likely what is going to happen with them is the botters will take over those. But there needs to be something for them while at the same time leaving us casual crafters that just want to earn some gil and relax alone.

[Shadygrove]

I onced asked what REWARDS hardcore crafters want....

Crafting, like virtue, is its own reward. (I find crafting far more rewarding than virtue though.)

They kinda promised us recipes that couldn't be macroed, and gave us tools to better craft freehand. All toward crafting relics.

Lets see if they succeed before we complain please.

[testname]

Crafting, like virtue, is its own reward. (I find crafting far more rewarding than virtue though.)

They kinda promised us recipes that couldn't be macroed, and gave us tools to better craft freehand. All toward crafting relics.

Lets see if they succeed before we complain please.

What they can do ? To make crafting enjoyable -"hard"- interesting and fun ? ( ofc they won't give back skills they deleted )

and specialist " void 3x button ? " literally slap into face

it can't be harder than system we have,

it's like making all healer skills into three buttons, single heal, aoe heal, raise - thus for ultimate and all raids, everything would need to be tuned for this "joke" jobs

I mean, the more skills at our disposal, the more interesting the fight can be/designed

[Kytrin]

What they can do ? To make crafting enjoyable -"hard"- interesting and fun ? ( ofc they won't give back skills they deleted )

and specialist " void 3x button ? " literally slap into face

it can't be harder than system we have,

I... have no idea what exactly you just said here? It's extremely disjointed when I read it. I think you were saying that bringing back specialist skills, in any capacity, would be a slap to the face? And it wouldn't be interesting or fun?

[chidarake]

the skills they should of added were ones that effect procs and durability and quality that takes thought to get through,

but as its been said many times on this forum crafting anything is a puzzle and once its solved its solved,

rng on crafts isnt fun but its pretty much the only thing they have available with the current skills. even the hardest of recipes has to be possible with any patches current max stats at the very most.

I'll wait and see the expert recipes before passing judgment and as for rewards the only thing worth having is cosmetics as if they give gear it would have to be like the 5slot materia meld gear to even make it worth while as since to get it youd have to complete the task anyway which means additional stats wouldnt really matter.

[Nicodemus_Mercy]

MAX MELDED PLAYERS SHOULD STILL HAVE A HARD TIME CRAFTING NEW RECIPES! it shouldnt be a cake walk even for them.

I have to say I disagree with this particular line most vehemently. Crafters who invest the considerable resources required should (in my opinion) have a relatively easy time crafting high end crafts compared to someone who just uses scrip gear or doesn't overmeld. At the same time, if the system was designed so that top end max melded crafters have a hard time with top end crafts, then people who use scrip gear and/or don't overmeld would be virtually unable to make HQ high star crafts, and if anyone thinks that's ok I'll just say right now... NO, that is NOT ok. I feel that anyone who levels a craft to max and has up to date gear (scrip gear or current HQ gear with default melds), should have a reasonable shot at making those HQ items too, and those who invest for better stats should have an easier time than they do.

I'd categorize myself as somewhere above scrip/non-overmelded gear but not maxed out with top end melds. I pentameld but I don't go nuts with the highest grade materia in all 5 slots. I put the highest grades in the guaranteed slots and use lower grades the deeper I go for a higher success rate because I am not willing to spend the time or money it takes to get all that materia just to watch the bulk of it go up in smoke. And even with my gear being above the basic level I still have to use some (and in some cases all) HQ mats and work out a good rotation to guarantee an HQ result of the new stuff. The people who are willing to make the big investment however, should have an easier time than I do, but I should also have a reasonable shot at making HQ gear too and so should those using scrip gear, even if that means we have to use some/all HQ mats to do it.

[testname]

I... have no idea what exactly you just said here? It's extremely disjointed when I read it. I think you were saying that bringing back specialist skills, in any capacity, would be a slap to the face? And it wouldn't be interesting or fun?

Are You trolling me ?

Compare specialists skills now and before

[Nicodemus_Mercy]

Are You trolling me ?

Compare specialists skills now and before

I don't think they were trolling you. Your post was just worded oddly. I'm going to guess that English is not your native language. It took me a few re-reads to get that "void 3x button" was your way of saying "they removed 3 specialist skills", which I agree makes specialists have only a stat/cp advantage over non-specialists and that one very situational skill (though I think its an interesting skill to be sure).