It's time (Option to Hide other players Glamour)

[LineageRazor]

Personally, I don't have a problem with a "hide others' glamours" option. If someone wants to shut off what other people are wearing, that's fine. it doesn't affect other players in any way, unless those players are so insecure they can't bear the thought that someone out there on the Internet might not be seeing their masterful glamour.

That said, for folks worried about immersion, bear in mind that while you might not be seeing bikinis and wedding dresses anymore, you WILL be returning to the dark days of Rainbow Pimp Gear. Underneath that glamour, folks are wearing gear to maximize their stats - and there's no guarantee that gear that maximizes stats won't clash with other gear that maximizes stats...

[Wavaryen]

Personally, I don't have a problem with a "hide others' glamours" option. If someone wants to shut off what other people are wearing, that's fine. it doesn't affect other players in any way, unless those players are so insecure they can't bear the thought that someone out there on the Internet might not be seeing their masterful glamour.

That said, for folks worried about immersion, bear in mind that while you might not be seeing bikinis and wedding dresses anymore, you WILL be returning to the dark days of Rainbow Pimp Gear. Underneath that glamour, folks are wearing gear to maximize their stats - and there's no guarantee that gear that maximizes stats won't clash with other gear that maximizes stats...

It already has been pointed out. It does affect other players, To claim anything about it being insecure is just silly comment based off not how reality works for most people in the world.

[Zabuza]

It already has been pointed out. It does affect other players, To claim anything about it being insecure is just silly comment based off not how reality works for most people in the world.

Is it not an issue rooted in insecurity? Why would you need to seek the approval of others if you were happy with yourself? Needing this approval from others would imply that such a person needs additional affirmation from others to bolster their opinion in themselves, as if they are uncertain of the value of their existence. That seems like insecurity to me.

[Wavaryen]

Is it not an issue rooted in insecurity? Why would you need to seek the approval of others if you were happy with yourself? Needing this approval from others would imply that such a person needs additional affirmation from others to bolster their opinion in themselves, as if they are uncertain of the value of their existence. That seems like insecurity to me.

That is strange logic, To say it does not feel good to have someone notice your style or whatever is crazy. In fact, some studies think it is a sign of good mental health and is a very healthy to care how others perceives you.

Insecurity is not the same thing. That is like saying most women have an insecurity problem. I mean even edge lords use fashion as a statement.


I don't NEED everyone to like my fashion, but if I spent time resources on said fashion. You darn right you will see it, and should not have the power to turn it off. You can hate my style all you want. It would not bother me, but you got to see it. That is all that I care about at the end of the day.

[Zabuza]

That is strange logic, To say it does not feel good to have someone notice your style or whatever is crazy. In fact, some studies think it is a sign of good mental health and is a very healthy to care how others perceives you.

Insecurity is not the same thing. That is like saying most women have an insecurity problem. I mean even edge lords use fashion as a statement.


I don't NEED everyone to like my fashion, but if I spent time resources on said fashion. You darn right you will see it, and should not have the power to turn it off. You can hate my style all you want. It would not bother me, but you got to see it. That is all that I care about at the end of the day.

I guess at the end of the day the question is why are you putting that time and effort into the fashion? Is it for yourself or for other people's approval/compliments? If it is so that other people will notice you and shower you with praise for your choice of outfits, then it is absolutely insecurity, for the reason I explained above. If however, you are putting that time and effort into the fashion for yourself, then I don't think you would care if this glamour toggle was implemented in the first place.

[Wavaryen]

I guess at the end of the day the question is why are you putting that time and effort into the fashion? Is it for yourself or for other people's approval/compliments? If it is so that other people will notice you and shower you with praise for your choice of outfits, then it is absolutely insecurity, for the reason I explained above. If however, you are putting that time and effort into the fashion for yourself, then I don't think you would care if this glamour toggle was implemented in the first place.

All of the above?

For myself.
For others around who would enjoy it.


I don't think you understand what insecurity means. It is not that we need others to praise us. Just to be notice is enough, and it is fun. It feels good. It is the reason, I spend money like I do on matching outfits with my girl. It is the reason, when we go out. I dress up to look good for everyone.


Do you think people spend money on cosplay outfits and show it off are just insecure?


This is normal? I'm not sure why I would even have to explain common sense. You are trying to make it sound like people who dress up like to be notice has some issues. You peeps are some very anti social people.

[Zabuza]

All of the above?

For myself.
For others around who would enjoy it.


I don't think you understand what insecurity means. It is not that we need others to praise us. Just to be notice is enough, and it is fun. It feels good. It is the reason, I spend money like I do on matching outfits with my girl. It is the reason, when we go out. I dress up to look good for everyone.


Do you think people spend money on cosplay outfits and show it off are just insecure?


This is normal? I'm not sure why I would even have to explain common sense. You are trying to make it sound like people who dress up like to be notice has some issues. You peeps are some very anti social people.

Yes, there is a lot of insecurity in the world. That is also common sense. Most people are insecure about something or other. This is one form of it, whether you want to accept it or not.

[Lambdafish]

I don't NEED everyone to like my fashion, but if I spent time resources on said fashion. You darn right you will see it, and should not have the power to turn it off. You can hate my style all you want. It would not bother me, but you got to see it. That is all that I care about at the end of the day.

So I highlighted the summary of what you just said. All that matters is what you want, and the other player must accept that. You have taken no consideration as to what the other player may want. Reality check, the majority of the playerbase does not appeciate or care about your glamour. You are glamouring for less than 30-50 players out of thousands to actually appreciate, of which all of the above will see your glamour under this proposed feature. If someone wants a different experience, you telling them that that player is in the wrong for not caring about your glamour and wanting to create a more immersive experience for themselves is exactly what zabuza described of you, insecure and I'll add - mildly attention seeking.

[Wavaryen]

So I highlighted the summary of what you just said. All that matters is what you want, and the other player must accept that. You have taken no consideration as to what the other player may want. Reality check, the majority of the playerbase does not appeciate or care about your glamour. You are glamouring for less than 30-50 players out of thousands to actually appreciate. If someone wants a different experience, you telling them that that player is in the wrong for not caring about your glamour and wanting to create a more immersive experience for themselves is exactly what zabuza described of you, insecure and I'll add - mildly attention seeking.

Correct, all that matters is what I want because it fits the role of what a social game is. You having the power to turn off one part of social aspect of the game, does not go with a part of what mmos are. No negotiating with fashion terrorists.

[Packetdancer]

Sure people conveniently ignore things that break their proposed rules, but you have to admit while things like wearing a white frilly gown are pretty non-combat oriented, wearing a rudolph nose and bikini (or other wildly incongruous outfit) just doesn't happen in the story. There's "that looks like a bad choice of gear in a fight" and then theres "why is there a joke outfit?".

Allow me to list a few of the canon, SquareEnix-created Squadron Recruit NPCs who may show up for your Grand Company squadron:

• Seserikku, a lalafell who shows up dressed in a snowman costume.
• Crilde, an elezen who shows up dressed as a reindeer.
• Raelthota, an elezen who shows up wearing basically underwear, greaves with weird hoof-like feet, and a half-mask over the lower half of her face.

Is it not an issue rooted in insecurity? Why would you need to seek the approval of others if you were happy with yourself? Needing this approval from others would imply that such a person needs additional affirmation from others to bolster their opinion in themselves, as if they are uncertain of the value of their existence. That seems like insecurity to me.

If the only possible reason I could have any opinion about the idea of someone having a button to potentially put me into underwear in their cutscenes is insecurity, then the only possible reason you could have to want not to see other people's glamoured outfits is some equally reductive and oversimplified motive, such as "you are filled with bigoted rage at the very idea of a masculine character wearing a wedding gown somewhere in the game".

I mean, there's about the same degree of accuracy to both those things. And if it seems unreasonable to reduce all arguments for the feature to the latter motive, please recognize it's equally unreasonable to do the same to all possible motives to be exasperated by a 'remove glamour' button you can use on others.

When women end up objectified in day-to-day life and treated to comments like "you'd be prettier if you just smiled" or "you know, you'd look so much nicer in a skirt" (or alternatively, "damn, those pants are tight" as someone stares at your ass), is it so hard to believe that it would inspire a bit of "urgh, really?" when someone insists they should be given the right to strip off my avatar's virtual clothing in game as well? Especially when like 60% of all female healer leg gear is effectively just underwear?

If you run into a tank who's leveling and wearing Shisui gear because it's got the best stats for them but who's glammed themselves back into plate because that's what feels 'right' for them as a tank (i.e., me when I was leveling DRK), that's not necessarily insecurity; I'll wear relatively revealing clothing for DNC, because it feels thematically appropriate to me for that job where it doesn't for my tank. But even if there's no technical difference between "your DNC is wearing their artifact gear, which shows a lot of skin" and "I stripped away your DRK glam to put you back in the Shisui bikini", it still feels different.

If someone is staring at you iRL and picturing you naked, even if it does not physically do anything to you—and even if you are the most confident person in the world—it can feel uncomfortable to be reduced to an object like that. (Or at the very least, emotionally exhausting.) So is it completely impossible to understand that adding a button that basically could be pressed to potentially remove someone's clothing in game—regardless of the intended purpose—might make some folks feel, maybe not personally violated, but at least a little more exhausted?

Why on earth would it be so terrible to just do the blanket switch proposed earlier? Where basically, if you toggle it on, it turns off glamours and everyone in the game is put in the iconic gear for their current job? Dragoons wear the Azure Dragoon-style armor. White mages wear the cleric robes. Paladins wear plate. Etc. If the argument for this feature is 'immersion', I literally cannot see how that harms someone's immersion; it seems like it would be better for that mindset than just removing glamours. After all, just removing glamours entirely might put someone in not just Rainbow Pimp Gear, but Pants-Free Rainbow Pimp Gear.

And how on earth is that "immersive"?

#PantsAreThematic #GiveUsMorePants2k20 #TheHashtagsWillContinueUntilMoraleImproves #OrThisThreadEnds #WhichAreProbablyTheSameThing