Thank you Yoshi for your stance on DPS meters

[van_arn]

At the end of the day the only people this really hurts is the average player. The guy who doesn't usually do raids but wants to start and learn. He's gonna join a party and get kicked for seemingly no reason because everyone else is too scared of a ban to explain what was going on.

It's a lost chance for a good learning tool. Seeing the BLM do 7k dps when everyone else is 14k+ is a hint something is wrong. It's a chance to show him the fflog so he knows he keeps dropping enochian, or he's only doing 3 f4 instead of 6. (I've seen this. Whole dungeon run, dude didn't use f1 once. Asked him about it and he said why would he use it once he unlocked f3)

But to avoid potential toxicity we'll just do the most toxic thing and boot em without a word. Now he doesn't get to learn AND gets a false idea that there's just a bunch of elitist people kicking him for no reason.

It's a combination of the game providing no tools to tell players they suck and not blocking them from participating in content they suck at.

Require SSS on the job you want to play in Savage at the very least.

[Sebazy]

SSS itself falls way short of what's needed IMHO. The new dodging mini game in the saucer is at least a good start though.

A simple and private rating that shows you how your potency per second stacked up with the average for that duty on your job would do wonders and be oh so simple to implement.

[Penthea]

It's a combination of the game providing no tools to tell players they suck and not blocking them from participating in content they suck at.

Require SSS on the job you want to play in Savage at the very least.

I see the logic you're following, and I don't entirely disagree...but I feel I must point out that this is useless for gauging healers. Their dps rotations are simple at best, and the dummy does zero to test healing ability. Any idiot could do the healer SSS dummies. This particular form of gatekeeping would still allow some unskilled players to enter savage. It may even result in players using healers more often in savage due to it being a no-brainer to beat the dummy, which could result in an increase of bad healers.

I don't imagine SE would be fond of such gatekeeping anyway, so I would be surprised if we ever see anything resembling this.

The game needs a personal parser that grades performance based on the damage you do with the ilvl you have equipped. I think that would be the best way to encourage players to improve. Of course some people are lazy, but others would end up seeing getting higher grades as a personal goal.

[Melichoir]

So we just kicked him. We got a new DPS, and the dungeon went smoothly after that. Moral of the story? Yoshi P has now drawn the line in the sand. If you can't read your tooltips and preform at a decent level, you won't get help.

You get the boot.

Difference in Gameplay.

I cant help but agree. This is hte irony of the anti parsing debate. All it's gonna do is create more negativity overall because yes, better players will just opt out of helping people simply because they wont want to get punished by over reactive players. Im in the same boat where I do like to help new players out, but yeah, if people are being stupid as hell about things Im not gonna stick my neck out and help. Ill just kick and find someone who can do the job.

It's a combination of the game providing no tools to tell players they suck and not blocking them from participating in content they suck at.

Require SSS on the job you want to play in Savage at the very least.

SSS needs to be reworked from scratch. A few things need to happen there:

1) It needs to have a DPS meter for doing it so you can look at your output more easily.
2) There needs to be Target Dummies at that site with an NPC that can reset your Cooldowns within the area. This would be a huge boon for people who want to practice rotations and not wait 2 minutes or whatever when they pop a CD to early.
3) There have to be different types of SSS that are more role specific and incorporate basic raid type mechanics. As an example, an SSS for healers is gonna have a central target to DPS and auxiliary targets that take damage periodically that require you to heal them in between casting damage. Another would be a Tank one that requires you to move the target to certain places within the arena to avoid ground AoE. The mechanics dont have to be super complex, but rather are there to simulate to some basic degree what the roll will be expected to do. It would go a LONG way just having basic simulations like this in prepping and improving players who want to get into more difficult content.

The current iteration is just do basic to be of any worth. It's "If you can beat this, you can do savage" is fine but what do you do if you cant beat it? How will you know what to improve or where to practice that improvement short of jumping through NPC menus. Or even if you can dps down the dummies, that doesnt exactly define that you understand your role. As a point, as a tank you just have to max dps the target. It assumes not only 100% up time, but also you dont need to burn up mana or resources on defensive CDs. Straight DPS measurements in of itself isnt a really good benchmark to say that someone would be capable of doing savage.

[Jollyy5]

It's "If you can beat this, you can do savage" is fine but what do you do if you cant beat it?

Therein lies another problem, the dummy is inaccurate.

I can consistently get purple to orange percentile in raids, but at the same time I might still not have the DPS to beat the dummy in time. Tried it a few times and deemed it a horrible tool.

[Liam_Harper]

I see the logic you're following, and I don't entirely disagree...but I feel I must point out that this is useless for gauging healers. Their dps rotations are simple at best, and the dummy does zero to test healing ability. Any idiot could do the healer SSS dummies.

We could do with something like WoW's Proving Grounds at max level. Then when you make a premade party through Party Finder, you can tick "Proving Ground Gold" as a requirement and anyone who hasn't beaten it can't join. Difference in playstyle, which we've been encouraged on.

[Nedkel]

The few will always ruin it for the rest, just sad fact of mankind's very existence. Think back to msq daily, used to be skippable but people were harassing new folk. Healers being pressured to play green dps' s (as in try to mim-max heals for damage) so they reduced dps skills on healers to try and hope it'd make people stop abusing a healer. Didn't work so now healers are boring to play for many who did like pushing potential.

Call it being cynical, I call it reality that people will always fuck it up for the rest. I get dps is importemt in harder content but that's no excuse to be an asshole first to someone. Not is it okay to knowingly slack off but I've seen more people automatically attack someone vs finding out if they just aren't aware how to play the job in a polite manner.

For me it looks opposite.
They want healers to dish out DPS thats why they dumbed down their dps rotation to minimum to encourage them to use dps spells, and they have achived their target because healers today on average are doing way more dps than ever before.

[Kacho_Nacho]

For me it looks opposite.
They want healers to dish out DPS that's why they dumbed down their dps rotation to minimum to encourage them to use dps spells, and they have achieved their target because healers today on average are doing way more dps than ever before.

This was my take as well.

Players may complain about how simple damage dealing is on a healer; but, they should be glad that it is. I couldn't imagine how much outcry there would be if healers had the same sort of involved rotations many damage dealers have. It would be totally nuts!

[Packetdancer]

At the end of the day the only people this really hurts is the average player. The guy who doesn't usually do raids but wants to start and learn. He's gonna join a party and get kicked for seemingly no reason because everyone else is too scared of a ban to explain what was going on.

I admit, I got curious about raiding but I didn't want to be that person who dragged down random parties. Luckily, someone in my FC was putting together a static for newbie raiders, so I joined that. All of us are new to it, and it's been a fun learning experience along the way.

[Shurrikhan]

This was my take as well.

Players may complain about how simple damage dealing is on a healer; but, they should be glad that it is. I couldn't imagine how much outcry there would be if healers had the same sort of involved rotations many damage dealers have. It would be totally nuts!

We're already seeing considerable outcry over how un-involved the majority of their play (sadly, damage-dealing) is...