Thank you Yoshi for your stance on DPS meters

[linay]

In related news, I couldn't meet up with Diablos. I had waited to see if they would contact me again since I made several attempts in this thread to get in touch with them outside my work hours. They transferred to another data center which I suspect was because of this thread. I'm a bit frustrated with both parties on their reactions...but I feel more sad overall. That's not what I like seeing happen in game.

I assume you're talking about DynnDiablos? I haven't been following this thread closely as there have been too many posts, but read a bit here and there.

[QT_Melon]

I assume you're talking about DynnDiablos? I haven't been following this thread closely as there have been too many posts, but read a bit here and there.

Yes. I saw their tell thinking everyone hated them - but I couldn't reach them because I was at work at the time. I tried to stay in their world for the rest of the week only to find out they transferred. :<

[jameseoakes]

In related news, I couldn't meet up with Diablos. I had waited to see if they would contact me again since I made several attempts in this thread to get in touch with them outside my work hours. They transferred to another data center which I suspect was because of this thread. I'm a bit frustrated with both parties on their reactions...but I feel more sad overall. That's not what I like seeing happen in game.

That's really sad if that's what happened.

I was curious to see what came of your offers to help Diablos, your two exchanges were probably the only real positive in the later part of this thread

[Vahlnir]

Yeah that's not cool (the death threats).

In related news, I couldn't meet up with Diablos. I had waited to see if they would contact me again since I made several attempts in this thread to get in touch with them outside my work hours. They transferred to another data center which I suspect was because of this thread. I'm a bit frustrated with both parties on their reactions...but I feel more sad overall. That's not what I like seeing happen in game.

Honestly, if a single forum thread (in which THEY came across as abrasive and more which people simply responded to) caused them not only to vacate the forums, but subsequently switch data centers, then they have bigger issues than even I realized. And that is unfortunate. Instead of confronting their issues their solution is to keep running. I genuinely hope that one day they will find the strength they need. All of that said, I don't regret a single word I said to them earlier in this thread. They were in the wrong and I was calling them out on it. I wasn't exceedingly rude either. I was stern and straight to the point. This was the case for 99% of the posts responding to theirs. Calling them out on what they said is all that happened. They just couldn't handle it, no matter how civil people were. Some were more or less civil than others, but those that were less so were only responding in kind. I don't know what else they expected to happen.

[QT_Melon]

That's really sad if that's what happened.

I was curious to see what came of your offers to help Diablos, your two exchanges were probably the only real positive in the later part of this thread

Well to be fair, I expected either outcome.

The problem isn't that people weren't wrong, but the problem is that people may be losing sight of the goal in their way of wanting to be right. That's a bit trickier to do because it DOES mean sometimes just setting aside differences to get people to be receptive no matter how abrasive they may initially be.

Let's face it, the majority of this content is casual and can be passed without a parser. Savage is for the most part a different story (I know PS4 groups that do just fine passing all of Savage without out it, but dunno about all PS4 for something like Ultimate). So how do you get someone more stubborn or abrasive to see its overall benefits? You have to change tactics.

As it stands now it seems people's unwillingness to change tactics is why we have the status quo, if people aren't going to change the way they go about it, why should the devs. This is why we can't have nice things.

[jameseoakes]

Well to be fair, I expected either outcome.

The problem isn't that people weren't wrong, but the problem is that people may be losing sight of the goal in their way of wanting to be right. That's a bit trickier to do because it DOES mean sometimes just setting aside differences to get people to be receptive no matter how abrasive they may initially be.

Let's face it, the majority of this content is casual and can be passed without a parser. Savage is for the most part a different story (I know PS4 groups that do just fine passing all of Savage without out it, but dunno about all PS4 for something like Ultimate). So how do you get someone more stubborn or abrasive to see its overall benefits? You have to change tactics.

As it stands now it seems people's unwillingness to change tactics is why we have the status quo, if people aren't going to change the way they go about it, why should the devs. This is why we can't have nice things.

Can't argue with any of that, I can't help but feel most of the later part of this thread has just been a demonstration of why the Devs went with the stance they have gone with.

[NealSnow]

The few will always ruin it for the rest, just sad fact of mankind's very existence. Think back to msq daily, used to be skippable but people were harassing new folk. Healers being pressured to play green dps' s (as in try to mim-max heals for damage) so they reduced dps skills on healers to try and hope it'd make people stop abusing a healer. Didn't work so now healers are boring to play for many who did like pushing potential.

Call it being cynical, I call it reality that people will always fuck it up for the rest. I get dps is importemt in harder content but that's no excuse to be an asshole first to someone. Not is it okay to knowingly slack off but I've seen more people automatically attack someone vs finding out if they just aren't aware how to play the job in a polite manner.

[SamSmoot]

Seems that SE wants group content to be inclusive, so, getting kicked or called out for poor performance is bad...
Solution: Equalize performance. If you just stand there and auto attack, then the game should boost your damage to mid level, so you end up contributing to the group even if you have no idea what you're doing.

[Sebazy]

Healers being pressured to play green dps' s (as in try to mim-max heals for damage) so they reduced dps skills on healers to try and hope it'd make people stop abusing a healer. Didn't work so now healers are boring to play for many who did like pushing potential.

I'd be very interested to know where this assumption is from.

As far as I'm aware, it was nothing more than cutting down on button bloat and streamlining things... Poorly. As is typically the case with healer matters with the last few expansion releases it seems.

[Bacons]

At the end of the day the only people this really hurts is the average player. The guy who doesn't usually do raids but wants to start and learn. He's gonna join a party and get kicked for seemingly no reason because everyone else is too scared of a ban to explain what was going on.

It's a lost chance for a good learning tool. Seeing the BLM do 7k dps when everyone else is 14k+ is a hint something is wrong. It's a chance to show him the fflog so he knows he keeps dropping enochian, or he's only doing 3 f4 instead of 6. (I've seen this. Whole dungeon run, dude didn't use f1 once. Asked him about it and he said why would he use it once he unlocked f3)

But to avoid potential toxicity we'll just do the most toxic thing and boot em without a word. Now he doesn't get to learn AND gets a false idea that there's just a bunch of elitist people kicking him for no reason.