It's time (Option to Hide other players Glamour)

[Iscah]

And that's why we'll never agree on that aspect of this discussion. You can't be for one form of choice while denying others.

The two interpretations are mutually exclusive. You can't support both versions of whose choice is more important.

What if they were to go back and design them so they are all truly gender neutral? We'll get rid of all of the women's versions of those items and keep them straight as the male version for every single one of them. That should solve your problem with this plan, right?

Still would not be happy, no - there are things I don't want for either gender.



(...and there goes my post limit.)


Editing in this one response, but I won't keep doing it:

Neither choice is "more important" than the other. The importance of each option is based squarely on the ones using them. The point is, why is it OK to have one but not the other?

Because, as I said, they are mutually exclusive.

If the choice should lie with the player over how their character appears, the viewer doesn't get a choice about how they see that character.

If the choice should lie with the viewer over how they see the character, the player has no choice about how their character appears to that viewer.

You cannot have both at once.

[Sairys]

It wouldn't harm the revenue stream if it were implemented as a blacklist feature. Plenty of players would also still invest in glamour - as proven by other games that have implemented such filters. I dress my character the way I want for my sake, not anybody else so if someone were to add something I wore to the blacklist it wouldn't even register as a problem to me. Not that I'd likely know it was happening in the first place.

Naming some of those MMOs that have a similar glamouring investment to FFXIV would be more helpful to your point.

That particular line of thought came up from reading how people are reacting to the idea that their character won't appear as they have intended them to other people, for some this appears to really matter, which leads to questions around whether it would impact peoples desire to glamour.
Even with blacklisting, seems likely people would become reluctant to use certain glamours if they were known to get you blacklisted.

[Annihilism]

These are alot of posts for something that can be boiled down to consumer choice/liberty and anti-consumer/authority. Personal liberty is ok until it doesnt fit certain group's agendas it seems. Freedom of choice my friends, some of you have forgotten what liberty means.

The worst part are people here making bold claims about the suggestion being some sort of veiled bigotry. I glamour for myself, I'm not trying to immpress anyone. Again, It seems like people crave attention and the possibilty of taking that away is making them irrational.

But I will admit I couldn't bring myself to turn on that feature because there are great glamours that I would miss out on. I saw a roe yesterday with a great Mr. X glamour, says he was lookin for some punk hyur named Leon. But slutglams and dudes with bunny ears and speedos gets boring fast.

There maybe times when I want to immerse myself in battle and seeing some clown in pig or frog suit bugs me sometimes. I just want the choice sometimes while at the same time not affecting other players rights.

Liberty, Pro-choice if you will

[Joven]

The two interpretations are mutually exclusive. You can't support both versions of whose choice is more important.

Neither choice is "more important" than the other. The importance of each option is based squarely on the ones using them. The point is, why is it OK to have one but not the other?

[Sairys]

These are alot of posts for something that can be boiled down to consumer choice/liberty and anti-consumer/authority. Personal liberty is ok until it doesnt fit certain group's agendas it seems. Freedom of choice my friends, some of you have forgotten what liberty means.

The worst part are people here making bold claims about the suggestion being some sort of veiled bigotry. I glamour for myself, I'm not trying to immpress anyone. Again, It seems like people crave attention and the possibilty of taking that away is making them irrational.

But I will admit I couldn't bring myself to turn on that feature because there are great glamours that I would miss out on. I saw a roe yesterday with a great Mr. X glamour, says he was lookin for some punk hyur named Leon. But slutglams and dudes with bunny ears and speedos gets boring fast.

There maybe times when I want to immerse myself in battle and seeing some clown in pig or frog suit bugs me sometimes. I just want the choice sometimes while at the same time not affecting other players rights.

Liberty, Pro-choice if you will

I mean if you want to go this route then yeah, the "pro" side does seem to really be complaining that people are happily engaging with a system that provides a freedom of choice and expression and want an option which lets them see the world through a dystopian vision where everyone wears the clothing assigned to their job lol.

[Ranaku]

It's strange, the debate about it is so heated and still it should be common sense for us living in western societies that we have to tolerate others stuff as long as they don't harm us physically.

I think it's a really dangerous thing that people are willing to blacklist and censor themself because they can't tolerate and that's actually something you can see in every "faction" nowdays.

A MMO is like our irl society, a bit at least, you show stuff off you have or you like and other players can see it. That's why we don't have housing like in wildstar but rather open wards where everyone can see your house. And dang sometimes i wish i could blacklist all moogle/chocobo/carbuncle houses but i rather choose to tolerate other players taste. I mean it's also my choice how many anti dragon canons i put in my garden in case of Au Ra invasions!

So again, even tho blacklisting sounds like a good way to deal with this topic...it's not. In that matter i don't even care a lot about me, if you blacklist me or my glam so be it. I care more about the people who are willing to censor themself just because they can't stand a certain opinion or way of expression that isn't harmful to them.

[Joven]

Because, as I said, they are mutually exclusive.

If the choice should lie with the player over how their character appears, the viewer doesn't get a choice about how they see that character.

If the choice should lie with the viewer over how they see the character, the player has no choice about how their character appears to that viewer.

You cannot have both at once.

You can have both because of the nature of video games.

This comes full circle to the fact that you wouldn't know whether someone was using this feature or not. In doing so you can just assume that everyone is seeing your character as you want them to be seen. Exactly the same as the modding situation, yet you seem to have no beef with that. Why should you have the option to make me see something that I'd rather not, yet I don't get the option to not see it? It all seems rather one sided.

[Annihilism]

Yeah you\'re right MMOs can be like rl, for example if I ask a toxic casual to use AoEs in expert roulette I get reported for not respecting their playstyle. Similar to how if I ask an anti-vax parent to respect their children\'s rights and vacinnate their kids I also get attacked. But I can\'t vote to dismiss that parent from society can I?

No but jokes aside it isn\'t about people not tolerating other\'s playstyles/lifestyles, its people not tolerating others right to choose.

[Dakuryon]

It's strange, the debate about it is so heated and still it should be common sense for us living in western societies that we have to tolerate others stuff as long as they don't harm us physically.

I think it's a really dangerous thing that people are willing to blacklist and censor themself because they can't tolerate and that's actually something you can see in every "faction" nowdays.

A MMO is like our irl society, a bit at least, you show stuff off you have or you like and other players can see it. That's why we don't have housing like in wildstar but rather open wards where everyone can see your house. And dang sometimes i wish i could blacklist all moogle/chocobo/carbuncle houses but i rather choose to tolerate other players taste. I mean it's also my choice how many anti dragon canons i put in my garden in case of Au Ra invasions!

So again, even tho blacklisting sounds like a good way to deal with this topic...it's not. In that matter i don't even care a lot about me, if you blacklist me or my glam so be it. I care more about the people who are willing to censor themself just because they can't stand a certain opinion or way of expression that isn't harmful to them.

Exactly! "An it harm none, do what ye will" is something I strongly believe in, and I feel like it should apply to situations such as this.

[Annihilism]

It's strange, the debate about it is so heated and still it should be common sense for us living in western societies that we have to tolerate others stuff as long as they don't harm us physically.

I think it's a really dangerous thing that people are willing to blacklist and censor themself because they can't tolerate and that's actually something you can see in every "faction" nowdays.

A MMO is like our irl society, a bit at least, you show stuff off you have or you like and other players can see it. That's why we don't have housing like in wildstar but rather open wards where everyone can see your house. And dang sometimes i wish i could blacklist all moogle/chocobo/carbuncle houses but i rather choose to tolerate other players taste. I mean it's also my choice how many anti dragon canons i put in my garden in case of Au Ra invasions!

So again, even tho blacklisting sounds like a good way to deal with this topic...it's not. In that matter i don't even care a lot about me, if you blacklist me or my glam so be it. I care more about the people who are willing to censor themself just because they can't stand a certain opinion or way of expression that isn't harmful to them.

I strongly sympathize with your point, even though I've been playing devil's advocate for the pro side, but you are right. I guess I wouldn't want those negative tendencies to bleed from RL into FF14.