Thank you Yoshi for your stance on DPS meters

[Sebazy]

Not going to lie, I feel your proving my view. Anyone who disagrees with you guys is to be bullied out of the discussion. Once people went to dodgy third party sites to stalk that person it went to far and become targeted harassment and bullying irrespective of what else they did.

Was it really a case of being bullied out of the discussion though? Was the discussion really even grounded in the reality of how the end game raiding scene of this game actually works?

Hark back to page 31. We have a valiant casual trying to tell Weg how the endgame works. Let's be clear here, this is someone with seemingly minimal raid scene experience (Confirmed by lodestone achievements, not dodgy third party sites FYI) trying to push their opinions over someone who has been at the very forefront of progression raiding for years with multiple world firsts to their name.

Just no.

Everyone's opinions are welcomed here and it's not for me or anyone else outside of SE's moderation team to decide otherwise, this is a discussion forum specifically for that purpose. However, a very important threshold is crossed when someone starts trying to pass their opinions off as fact, especially when they are blind to a large segment of the game that the debate revolves around.

[Melichoir]

all it takes is one bad day for you to get the "toxic" label from the anti-parser people and trust me that bad day will come.

much like the competitive games the worst players are often the loudest.

The fact is: people who use it wrongly exist and therefore they will be used as baseline for the argument against parsers.
Pro-parsers will be doing the same thing by pointing out how toxic casuals can be because there is also a small fraction of the casual playerbase that is toxic.

People need to acknowledge that toxicity exists in every level of play. Now we need to figure out if we are willing to give them more tools they can use to be toxic with or not and if we are letting them getting away with it or not.

WE might complain about the toxic players all we want but if you see it happen but don't do anything about it then you're just as bad as the toxic people because you're enabling that behaviour.

More or less this with a caveat.

The great irony of this whole parsing thing is that people are quick to blame the parser as the reason that people are toxic, not realizing that there is tons of people being toxic AF when there is no parsing needed (play pvp for a few hours and you can see how salty people can get). Even for people who arent generally toxic, they have their off days. I think this thread clearly illustrates that. How many posts in here for one reason or another was 'toxic'? And mind all of you, there's no parsing going on in a forum thread, so why is it happening?

People have bad days, and sometimes they react poorly. If they didnt have a parser, it would nto stop them from snapping at people and being irritable in other places. The issue isnt the tool, its the people behind it. Always has been. Always gonna be.

Yes people should be calling out toxic behavior when its legitimate, but we would also need ground rules that are widely agreed upon and fairly specific within the community. We cant have rules that are so open ended and vague that simply saying "Hey, can you do boss mechanics!" or "Hey, pick up the dps or were gonna wipe" is considered Toxic and worthy of reprimand. Blunt as those statements may be, theyre not in any way toxic compared to "Youre a trash dps. F---ing uninstall the game you stupid F". The player base needs to be grown up enough to know the difference between when someone is calling you out to play the game better for everyone's sake, and when theyre being spiteful jackasses determined to put you down or in your place.

[Hash_Browns]

Yes you can, that was was a hate mob and outright bullying. The way that was done with dredging stuff up to launch personal attacks on someone was frankly vile. Then don't rise to them, it's as simple as that. It's not always easy but when you feel the need to dig up stuff from dodgy websites to name and shame the person it's honestly pitiful.

This is the equivalent of complaining that someone checked your reddit post history, and called you out.

[jameseoakes]

This is the equivalent of complaining that someone checked your reddit post history, and called you out.

No that's creepy stalking

[Angus-Beef]

No that's creepy stalking

In the end if you like it don't claim things and get mad when people ask for proof. Its expected IRL and here, its that simple.

[Angus-Beef]

Honestly, I RARELY run into anyone talking about parsing in FFs community, I PF a lot in my spare time, I run dungeons, Its rare to see people talking about 3rd party anything........I think a lot of people on FF are a little too busy on twitter and the forums over the actual game itself. And even in the case you do meet someone outright breaking the ToS and admitting to it in game.......You can...report them? Like literally if they admit to Parsing you and calling to bad, they literally earned a 10 day, the GMs who deal with player Harassment respond in like 10-20 min max, and they investigate after you give your side of the situation, you can even provide pics.

Its a bit baffling to see people talk so much about toxic players, but as someone who prefers to report over argue, I know from experience that GMs are very quick to reply and fix any harassment based situation, from PF to Alliance raids, to roulettes. If you're not reporting an obvious jerk whos breaking ToS to shame you, you're part of this *massive* issue we're apparently dealing with.

And to the OP, You missed Yoshi Ps point, its not about Meters, its about cheaters, those who move markers with a program over learning how to do it manually, and those who give the proteans in TEA Telegraphs(they're not supposed to have any) Those are the people who hes speaking on, the Plug ins to ACT he doesnt agree with.

That being said, the average player who cares about improving ones self doesn't speak on their parser.

All in All, if YOU(the people who will read this) have a problem with people parsing/not parsing, make your own FC/LS/Community/Discord server with people who have similar mindsets and keep it to yourself. Does that solve the problem now?

Just to get the thread back on topic, have this quote

[Hash_Browns]

No that's creepy stalking

You're really reaching here. In all honesty though, this person wasn't "viciously attacked" for the stance they had on parsing. They have repeatedly come into the thread claiming that their time was more important then everyone elses. They were looked up after boasting about "blasting fellow DPS out of the water" - "preforming optimally" - and "knowing how well they were doing, or how poorly they were doing without a parser."

The main reason I brought up their numbers was to show, indeed, that they did not know how well they were doing. As I have stated before, their have been several other people to come in here who do not agree with parsing, and I can get behind that in the purest sense - but to come in here, and really spearhead some rather brash points witht he cherry on top being "I dare anyone to look up my DPS" is going to get some responses.

When they came back to the thread, and were calmer about it they tried to twist word to make it look like they were the always the good person. Claiming that they "only did content for clears" - "played for the story only" - and that "FFXIV was basically a single player game with MMO wrapping." This is why I called them out (in a now deleted post I assume) again. They only value their own time, and no one elses.

I have yet to really look up other people, and hey - I'm no top player myself (Grey - blue in this tier), but I'll be damned if I'm going to let someone try to push people around in here with no knowledge of even themselves, and claims that can easily be disproven.

[Angus-Beef]

You're really reaching here. In all honesty though, this person wasn't "viciously attacked" for the stance they had on parsing. They have repeatedly come into the thread claiming that their time was more important then everyone elses. They were looked up after boasting about "blasting fellow DPS out of the water" - "preforming optimally" - and "knowing how well they were doing, or how poorly they were doing without a parser."

The main reason I brought up their numbers was to show, indeed, that they did not know how well they were doing. As I have stated before, their have been several other people to come in here who do not agree with parsing, and I can get behind that in the purest sense - but to come in here, and really spearhead some rather brash points witht he cherry on top being "I dare anyone to look up my DPS" is going to get some responses.

When they came back to the thread, and were calmer about it they tried to twist word to make it look like they were the always the good person. Claiming that they "only did content for clears" - "played for the story only" - and that "FFXIV was basically a single player game with MMO wrapping." This is why I called them out (in a now deleted post I assume) again. They only value their own time, and no one elses.

I have yet to really look up other people, and hey - I'm no top player myself (Grey - blue in this tier), but I'll be damned if I'm going to let someone try to push people around in here with no knowledge of even themselves, and claims that can easily be disproven.

Literally this.

[Melichoir]

No that's creepy stalking

No its called verifying your credentials, or is it stalking when reporters check into the backgrounds of politicians who are making questionable statements? Is it stalking when a hiring manager verifies the details you put on your resume? Youre essentially arguing that checking peoples backgrounds when they make bombastic claims is a no go.

As for this:

So who is allowed to comment?

I dont agree with Angus's sentiment. Everyone is allowed their opinion and comment. However, dont be surprised when people challenge your opinion if its misinformed or controversial. You want to wade into a discussion and drop some hot stuff, dont be surprised if skeptical people check your street cred and call you out on it when you dont seem to have any. Experience matters a lot when it comes to opinions.

[jameseoakes]

No its called verifying your credentials, or is it stalking when reporters check into the backgrounds of politicians who are making questionable statements? Is it stalking when a hiring manager verifies the details you put on your resume? Youre essentially arguing that checking peoples backgrounds when they make bombastic claims is a no go.

As for this:


I dont agree with Angus's sentiment. Everyone is allowed their opinion and comment. However, dont be surprised when people challenge your opinion if its misinformed or controversial. You want to wade into a discussion and drop some hot stuff, dont be surprised if skeptical people check your street cred and call you out on it when you dont seem to have any. Experience matters a lot when it comes to opinions.

Seriously if you go looking random people up on whatever third party websites then something is very very wrong with what you are doing and you've gone way over the the line. Either ignore them or counter there arguments. It doesn't matter what they did, you guys went after them and stalked them to dig up stuff to personally harass them. There statements may have been crass but you went way over the lien with how you called them out on it.