Thank you Yoshi for your stance on DPS meters

[Shurrikhan]

It's not about do's or don'ts. They can.

The issue isn't about appropriately using the parser to help with actual issues that cause a wipe. It's about when someone misuse the parser information to call out someone specifically in a dungeon run where no one is dying and you're beating the enemies, etc. Obviously, when you know how fast a run can go, you can still call out people without actual parsing information, but that information is data that strengthens your argument, therefore, it facilitates your action in calling them out.

This is my own speculation (obviously), but given their official stance, it looks like (unless the problem is obvious without a parser, like someone keep failing mechanic) they would rather people call out the problem in general, and if the group can't do it, to disband, rather than pointing someone out specifically via parser information.

It's not ideal, but legitimate use being affected by illegitimate use is not surprising. And yes, people have to accept that not running optimally (aka mediocrity as another thread puts it) is acceptable means of playing the game in general from the devs' viewpoint as far as I can tell. People can of course choose to play with those who share their game play philosophy.

There is literally no negative behavior parsers uniquely generate apart from the same incredibly minor strand of reductionism or 'tunnel-vision' that comes with all convenient information (e.g. people thinking that the only definition of anything is whatever's the first boxed off result on google for <word + "meaning">).

There are however, several positive behaviors they generate, some of which directly reduce conflicts and other instances likely to turn into toxicity.

Let's be clear here, expecting someone to be capable of meeting the basic requirement of a given range of content is not toxic. It is not exclusionary. It's neutral.

But, obscuring performance does not make content any more inclusive; you effect only the opposite. Once players are forced to deal with a wider range of completion chances and/or times (e.g. a higher chance that a given group will be unable to complete the content because the players are unable to play the parts they tacitly said they could), they use every tangential means they can to buy back their old chances: even to begin prog, you'd likely see absurd ilvl requirements, requirements for linked achievements from previous tiers, and so forth.

[Selova]

Literally nothing has changed regarding the use of parsers outside of them coming down on very specific triggers regarding automatic marker placement. I knew as soon as Yoshida brought up the topic of parsers someone was going to take it out of context. You aren't going to get banned unless you're using it as tool for harassment, It's the same It's ever been.

[Angus-Beef]

On the flipside if you're in the content where these facts matter (savage, ultimate and some new ex's) don't be surprised if people see you slacking and ask for you to improve.

Respect other people's time.

Yes, ofc, that falls in with the whole aspect of knowing your part when you fo the fights and not holding the group back.

[VirusOnline]

Thank you Yoshi for validating and protecting my feelings on DPS meters.
FTFY

Slippery slope fallacy aside, yoshi's view on dps meters being inherently toxic or being the direct cause of toxicity is a failed logical argument. A sad day to hear those words come from him, really. Were it me I'd rather be called out and told what my problem is rather than being silently kicked. And let me tell you, being silently kicked is a far worse feeling, because then you're left scrambling for isolated reasoning.

So, fine. Throw away the parsers, yeah ? But when you get removed from a group without reason, don't complain. I guess you'll have to figure out your problem.

But a lot of you don't realize that Yoshi's stance causes an issue. Savage raiding is not meant to be casual, just as ultimates are not meant to be savage. It is a tier which requires becoming better than what casual content requires. Parsing helps this divide for the average raider. Parsing is almost nearly required for the ultimate raider. One cannot improve or optimize if they can't see where or how to do so. As such, parsing is a tool that helps us better understand if the ability to clear is there or not and how to address it.

[Shurrikhan]

What exactly is so good about blocking off resources and not giving us an alternative?
It's just like blocking chat in Feast. The communication and planning with pugs is gone, and it's made the mode worse than the occasional asshole cursing in chat.

All blocking ACT would do is deny players who want the chance to improve. Sure, there may be a few assholes using parse numbers to be toxic, but the vast majority only care what their personal numbers are. And if you're failing a DPS check over and over again, wouldn't you want to correct the issue? I don't get how Yoshi can sit there and talk down on ACT and not give us anything else to guage our DPS (SSS is overtuned and horrible).

Par for the course, though, no?

Year 2000:

Those who refuse to communicate with their teams in situations that can wildly vary beyond tacitly understood play are generally being irresponsible, selfish, and/or disrespectful.

Year 2019:

Anyone who insists that players be ready to communicate insofar as is beneficial to team performance must actually just be predatory bullies. Deafening yourself or leaving team chat, therefore, is not at all an irresponsible, selfish, or disrespectful fix for any criticisms you might receive alongside useful communications. Feel free never to speak to your team, nor to allow them to speak to you.

[QT_Melon]

My apologies I didn't make it clear I was speaking very generally about people in that particular section, and not specifically about the JP servers. I have some friends who lived in Japan for a while who told me about how people act there, and I am personally interested in eastern Asian media so I am familiar with what their audiences consider to be acceptable or unacceptable, and how they act with either reaction. A lot of what we consider to be very minor in the west (like a pop star dating someone, or accidentally saying profanity) can seriously damage your career in eastern Asia. My impression is that as long as people conform and do their best to not offend anyone, everything is very calm, but when someone does a mishap that could be interpreted as disrespect it can snowball very fast.

Although there's still more factors to it - "The nail that sticks up, gets hammered down" is still a phrase used in the negative aspect of Japanese conformity. Bullying was at a record high (though it may actually be due to the fact they're finally getting people to report it).

[ForteNightshade]

snip

I've heard of the incident you're referring to. Perhaps they should, you know, do something about the harassment itself instead of pretending it doesn't occur. If anything, that incident proves my point that parsers aren't inherently toxic. That comes down to individual people. And those players did several things that SE looked the other way on. In fact, they wound up banning him through a supposed doctored screenshot. So the harassers actually won in the end, though Dingo was not entirely innocent either.

It should also be noted JP as a whole doesn't necessary view mods negatively. 5ch simply used any little thing they could find to harass the guy. Him posting lewd screenshots made it easier for them to try getting him banned—which they ultimately succeeded in doing.

Regardless, barring a mis-translation, Yoshida outright said calling people out on low DPS is harassment. That is objectively wrong, though he is, of course, entitled to have such an opinion. So it isn't simply this culture of harassment but the idea that calling players out, no matter how polite, is harassment in and of itself.

[QT_Melon]

I've heard of the incident you're referring to. Perhaps they should, you know, do something about the harassment itself instead of pretending it doesn't occur. If anything, that incident proves my point that parsers aren't inherently toxic. That comes down to individual people. And those players did several things that SE looked the other way on. In fact, they wound up banning him through a supposed doctored screenshot. So the harassers actually won in the end, though Dingo was not entirely innocent either.

It should also be noted JP as a whole doesn't necessary view mods negatively. 5ch simply used any little thing they could find to harass the guy. Him posting lewd screenshots made it easier for them to try getting him banned—which they ultimately succeeded in doing.

Regardless, barring a mis-translation, Yoshida outright said calling people out on low DPS is harassment. That is objectively wrong, though he is, of course, entitled to have such an opinion. So it isn't simply this culture of harassment but the idea that calling players out, no matter how polite, is harassment in and of itself.

The harassment wasn't in game detectable. The whole point of the board was to do it off the game so they couldn't be linked to actual players. That's mostly what they do and most do not report it due to culture in not wanting shame.

Banning the victim was wrong imo, but we don't have the evidence the GMs received and what they were privy to judge and act on.

https://www.reddit.com/r/ffxiv/comme...ter_months_of/

Calling out players in general for not performing is considered harassment - that's why there was so many changes with healers and tanks. :P

Basically the mindset (culture) is different - to expect a JP company (leader since there there are divisions internationally) to instantly change to a US/foreign one isn't going to happen right away.

[AmeliaVerves]

Without parsers we never had any means to figure out best rotations and statweights/BiS sets. Just sayin. :v

[Thamorian]

I dare someone to say anything about my DPS. I will have them in GM jail so fast their head will spin.

What if your DPS is so bad that you are a detriment to the group? What if they are letting you know how bad your DPS is and they are trying to give you some feedback on how to do better? You gonna report them anyway for trying to help you? If thats the case, I suppose it would be better to just kick you from the group without telling you why. FF14 IS a multiplayer game, you performance in a group does affect other players in the group. If your personal DPS is low enough, it contributes to a group not clearing a fight or fights being agonizingly slow. I personally don't look forward to spending an extra 10 minutes in a dungeon because someone can't do a proper basic rotation. I certainly don't want to run a dungeon with the free-styling samurai or the ice mage.