FFXIV Devs: Please STOP punishing normal players for others breaking the rules.

[Metsonm]

I'm all for this change, to be honest. Not being able to swap placements mid-fight for the extremely niche scenarios that may need it is a small price to pay for an additional set of marks and pre-sets for every fight.

[SaitoHikari]

I'm all for this change, to be honest. Not being able to swap placements mid-fight for the extremely niche scenarios that may need it is a small price to pay for an additional set of marks and pre-sets for every fight.

It's not like those are mutually exclusive concepts. They could have added the extra markers and presets without the restriction on moving them mid-combat.

People need to know that someone on SE's staff had to program this restriction in the first place, since it obviously didn't exist before. For what reason? Logically, I doubt it's for 'wait and see' reasons in regards to the third party program, because it'd really just have the opposite intended effect for those who have no qualms about that sort of thing.

[QT_Melon]

At this point I think this was the easiest solution for them to come up with - though I will sympathize for those that use them outside Savage content, like Alliance Raids.

What we can hope for is that they come up with a solution that allows us to use a preset later or a solution that works down the line and let this be a "band aid" for the time being.

[Kenky]

It's not like those are mutually exclusive concepts. They could have added the extra markers and presets without the restriction on moving them mid-combat.

People need to know that someone on SE's staff had to program this restriction in the first place, since it obviously didn't exist before. For what reason? Logically, I doubt it's for 'wait and see' reasons in regards to the third party program, because it'd really just have the opposite intended effect for those who have no qualms about that sort of thing.

It's simply SE reacting to people actively endorsing 3rd party support to trivialize content, yet act as if they are "oh so gud at the vidja gaem". To that end, it could be classified under "cheating" though that's up to SEs personal choice with the ToS.

Personally? I'm glad it's changed. It stops people from gloating about how good they are, when they just follow a computers path. Not everyone needs to move markers during a fight, infact the only fights that I am aware of that MAY need constant marker-moving is the Ultimates. But one can make do without the markers (as people who have legitimately beaten EoA can attest to). It also stops people from being idiots by trying to remove markers during a pull. There is no end of people who think it's "funny" to remove the markers during the last fight in the Nier Raid, especially when there's new people in there, essentially forcing a wipe.

Think about it. How many fights in FFXIV do you need to A) Put markers down and B) Move then during combat?

Because I'm coming up with None.

And before anyone says anything to try and be unfriendly. No, I do not run savage / ultimate content, nor do I hold much desire to so I cannot in good faith talk about that content as if I know what I'm talking about. But in that same thread, neither do people who essentially hand their controls over to a computer just to get it done. It's meant to be challenging and test your limits as a player.

[SaitoHikari]

Think about it. How many fights in FFXIV do you need to A) Put markers down and B) Move then during combat?

Because I'm coming up with None.

And before anyone says anything to try and be unfriendly. No, I do not run savage / ultimate content, nor do I hold much desire to so I cannot in good faith talk about that content as if I know what I'm talking about.

I don't say this to be mean, but re-read this excerpt and ask yourself why you are even doing this.

To the rest of the post, people can troll with removing markers during a pull, yes. It's just as easy to argue that this restriction also means we have a new problem where people can troll with early pulling before markers get put down, and it can't be mitigated with new markers being put down compared to before. Plus, we don't even know if SE also put restrictions on simply removing markers mid-pull either. For all we know, we can actually still remove them mid-fight. Which means we're now back at square one.

We also have people coming into this thread describing what they use their markers for in non-raid content. Are we suddenly trying to argue that they don't matter? I'm arguing on behalf of those people, for the ones we are too short-sighted to see the impact for.

[JunseiKei]

I don't say this to be mean, but re-read this excerpt and ask yourself why you are even doing this.

To the rest of the post, people can troll with removing markers during a pull, yes. It's just as easy to argue that this restriction also means we have a new problem where people can troll with early pulling before markers get put down, and it can't be mitigated with new markers being put down compared to before.

Plus, we don't even know if SE also put restrictions on simply removing markers mid-pull either. For all we know, we can actually still remove them mid-fight. Which means we're now we're back at square one.

To be fair, this can also easily be mitigated by using alliance chat to make sure people understand C group is on the east side, B group is north or south side and A is west side. Most people just need to know where their particular group is and it's the tanks that will need to be the most observant, with everyone else having loads more time to adjust.

[Moonlite]

Anti-cheat software is terrible and I am against it. Hurting your entire playerbase because of the actions of a few using very questionable third party tools is also terrible and should not be tolerated. I understand they want to take action against this kind of thing and most people are in agreement about that. They need to come up with a proper solution rather than hamstringing their playerbase in a rush to eliminate things they deem unacceptable. Instead they should take their time and come up with a proper fix that isn't going to disrupt gameplay and features we have had access to for years and years. In the meantime, since they know some groups were streaming and using such tools, they could have given them a suspension to set an example that it isn't okay to use that tool, and it would have dissuaded many from continuing to use it.

Feast chat, frontline 8 man parties, or housing would like to talk. I don't approve or disapprove of any of these outcomes(too much anyways). It is just very clear that instead of working on the problem, which would require more man hours by SE. They pick the least work intensive solution. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

[Gemina]

Feast chat, frontline 8 man parties, or housing would like to talk. I don't approve or disapprove of any of these outcomes(too much anyways). It is just very clear that instead of working on the problem, which would require more man hours by SE. They pick the least work intensive solution. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

Kind of reminds me of tje vote kick feature. Those who have been living by 'optimal and efficient' for years now shouldn't have a problem with this then. Would you not agree?

[Arcari]

All this will do is widen the gap between legit players and cheaters. We know from twitter that the 3rd party tool is updating to have personal markers and client-side markers in 5.2.

So, SE takes away the ability for legit players to do markers mid-fight, while the cheaters don't get affected at all, rather their program improves?

I'm willing to bet if SE gave us 5 presets and allowed switching presets mid-fight, they would stop development of the 3rd party tool, since that was the goal of said tool.

Sounds like even if SE kept the ability to move waymarks mid-fight, the person behind this tool DGAF and is gonna keep using it and distributing it until they're forced to stop.

[Lilseph]

Think about it. How many fights in FFXIV do you need to A) Put markers down and B) Move then during combat?

Because I'm coming up with None.

Outside of the Savages and Ultimates, some Extreme Primals like Shinryu and Ifrit get affected. Both are pretty old though. A more recent example is probably The Copied Factory for the final boss. I've seen people move the waymark for the Tanks phase and then move them again for the adds phase, albeit pretty rarely. Eden's normal mode Titan had people move the waymarks around to show the safe spot for about the first two weeks after release to help people learn it better.

Iunno, the situations where it happens is pretty rare and mostly confined to new content, but that doesn't mean that they won't have more stuff like this is future content — especially since we have an extra 2 waymarks to put down now. I personally don't like the change, but I understand why they had to.