5.0 WAR is a disappointment

[millktea]

Its funny to see how opinion changed in a course of 8 months.
The truth is, war is just a second class job and is at the top least played jobs in the game. Gg wp

It didn't really change, just really bad players spoke up first. Not only that, but not everyone leveled up war initially, so it took time for many to realize just how bad warrior truly is.

The fact that yoshida was so shameless about giving war old skills as new ones is infuriating. Like what are you doing? I play this job religiously in raid, that was my one job in SB, and now I'm so resentful towards it.

I was just watching my war in uwu today, just all he was doing is spamming fell cleave and how dumb it all is. Nothing is special about IR. You FC during IR. You FC outside it. And now with FC's buff and Decimate's nerf, you spam FC even more. ENOUGH.

I'm getting really tired of the shameless paladin favoritism. The job reveal makes that obvious

It's clear that no one really likes warrior and due to its trash damage, being at least 8 to 10% lower than gunbreaker is awful, so no one really takes the job seriously. Why is this still being ignored? Its already bad enough tanks being too low.

[millktea]

How can you honestly say 4.2 WAR was complete? It lacked a way to support off-tanks, and that was addressed with NF. It lacked a way to take advantage of buffs that came up every 1 minute interval, that was addressed with IC. The infuriate mechanic is something that keeps WAR interesting without becoming a burden. I can't recall a situation where I couldn't IR on cooldown because I'd overcap on infuriate's cooldown, because I have the sense to use infuriate when needed!

Buffing upheaval would have the effect of making WAR more punishing to play since it has a natural tendency to drift over time, eventually resulting in falling off your IR window or forgoing a use to remedy the drift. IC has the inherent benefit of being on a charged system. You go onto praise inner beast, but you have to keep in mind that in practice it was seldom used outside of prog, and that even then you're talking about a defensive buff that was tied to a GCD. Neither applies to NF, thankfully!






It was never complex.

No. IC does not fix anything. Even if it could be available for 60s party buffs. That is only trick attack. TA is the only time a war's rotation would change. Warrior doesn't get to use other party buffs other than rdm and mnk, which line up with IR which means it is STILL LOCKED during that window, except you do it before and after, so it's a 14s burst instead of 10s. This changes nothing and just makes it 2 more "bigger fell cleaves" during ir. It's legitimately the same. Did not fix. Do not praise IC. It should just be an ogcd similar to upheaval, or GNB's blasting zone, as in take it off infuriate.

It is true that changing upheaval the way others are pitching would be bad, as in does have a drift issue.

"No one used it outside of prog", dungeons exist and still factor into this. So this raid mindset of it not mattering outside of raid is stupid. Also, it was used much in ultimates and openers.

[Lucy_Pyre]

The Upheaval natural drift issue would be as simple as a fix as making it work identically to how Gnashing Fang works for Gunbreaker; i.e. have its cooldown be affected by skill speed. That way, if you weave it during the first GCD of Inner Release and continue to use it on cooldown properly, it will always be available at 59 seconds on IR's CD, 29 seconds, and then once again to be weaved after the first GCD of your next IR. At the core of the matter it seems like such a simple way to fix the drift that I don't really know why it hasn't been done yet.

As for the rest, while I can certainly agree that the recycled animations used for Inner Chaos and Chaotic Cyclone are a little bit lazy and give a bit of an impression that SE didn't really know what they wanted to do with WAR for this expansion, I don't necessarily think that the skills in and of themselves are bad. Guaranteed direct critical hits being bad design isn't something I can agree with. While on the one hand it is true that some raid buffs don't affect Warrior (Battle Voice being probably the biggest offender of the bunch), it still gets benefit from a fair number of them (Technical Step and Embolden being probably the two strongest that it functions with). Brotherhood is exceptionally nice with Warrior since it lines up perfectly with every IR window, and while only a 5% buff which isn't as strong as some others if you have a Monk in the party is more or less means that every IR is just that much stronger, which is nice.

Back on the topic of guaranteed direct crits, however. I'm sure some people that play Warrior like it for no reason other than "muh big numbers" the reason I most enjoy that aspect of Warrior's damage profile is because of consistency. Sure, there's still some amount of damage variance in every run due to natural variance in damage on any given use of each skill as well as the DPS you're doing in your downtime, but the largest percentages of Warrior's DPS being made up entirely of guaranteed direct critical hits means that the largest portion of its damage is extremely consistent. Those Fell Cleave's in your opener are always going to hit around 33k, that Upheaval is always going to hit around 27k, and those Inner Chaos' are always going to hit around 51k (not considering raid buffs or anything, of course). As someone who has notoriously bad luck when it comes to things like critical rates, I like that quite a lot.

[millktea]

I agree making upheaval similar to BZ is good, but not sks based.

That isn't a little bit lazy. That is a severe understatement. Its clear that they essentially neglected the job, and yet introduced a new tank with pretty much everything.


A monk is absolutely fantastic, too bad they are not that popular. Due to storms eyes problem, the synchronization between the two drift, so unless you have communication with the monk, you lose out. And don't even get me started with rdm and embolden. If they feel that war shouldn't be reliant on party buffs, then their dps is too low for that. And no, warrior should NOT be lower than gnb.

buffing Fell cleave and inner chaos would make the imbalance even more drastic. Your damage being dependent on whether or not you killed it ending in IR or IC is bad. The better the party is, often means the worse your dps is. 10s of actual damage out of 80 is trash.

And barret is correct that titan DOES make IR difficult. Regardless if your timings are on point, it does not dismiss the fact that the mechanics severely hinder warrior due to them always happening during that point with little to no downtime for a war to do it comfortably.

I won't praise RI, but I do agree with the fact that it being free holds merit as tbn eventually has a diminishing return for being too strong. And tbh, I disagree that war has better mitigation. It doesn't compare to what it had beforehand

Warrior lost too much of its utility and its reason for even having one in the party. they took away deliverance and didn't know what to do. It doesn't have its damage, its utility, its support, and not even anything new. Not one skill is new. They explicitly stated they understood war is "the main tank" and officially worked to take that away from them too. They pretty much wanted to kill warrior.

I liked war for its aesthetic (not the barbarian stuff tho), flexibility, utility, support, its ability to adapt, is fluidity and duality, self synergy and self healing, and its damage output. This hardly exists at all. I understand I could play gnb, but I do not really find it that enjoyable with its slightly inflexible and straightforward rotation and while mp management is similar to gauge management, I do not like mp management. I don't like dark. And I dislike how pld is so favored out of all the tanks. Both paladin and gunbreaker got a lot more attention than the other two, and both war and dark have similar problems, but wars still the one that falls behind

[Lucy_Pyre]

I'll repeat the same thing I said before, if you're having issues with IR timings on Titan then you're doing something wrong. The only times I have had issues with IR beyond phase one on Titan were when I messed up my rotation and had to reapply Storm's Eye due to not paying attention & overcapping gauge, causing me to delay IR for 1-2 GCDs. But any time where I didn't do that and kept things properly aligned? There were zero issues. So the only way you have issues with IR is if you're just timing it poorly or managing your rotation inproperly which causes IR delays.

Also, you can't simply make a sweeping statement about "better party = lower WAR DPS" because the time that each fight ends will vary at which point it is in your rotation, especially a fight like Titan where if you aren't the tank that goes north doing Uplift 2 and then you proceed to get the first blue marker, well, I hope you enjoy spamming Tomahawk for 6 GCDs and doing absolutely nothing. Sure, it's entirely possible that you could have a party with all star DPS that kills Titan when your next IR has like 10 seconds left on the cooldown but by the same merit you could have a party of extremely high output DPS and kill Titan 10 seconds after you exit IR, and many different scenarios in between.

Bonus, yes Warrior should absolutely deal less DPS than Gunbreaker. Gunbreaker even at the base level is more complex to play than Warrior with significantly more double weaving, and at the highest end that job has much more optimization potential due to the increased complexity of its DPS kit. That increased complexity should naturally reward the user for being able to make use of it with higher DPS output than the other tanks can provide. However, I strongly believe that Warrior should be second in terms of tank DPS. Within 75-100 DPS, around there, would be fine I think.

[Nedkel]

They should not buff war for free at all, make him more complex and then icrease his dps so its fair for other tanks.

[Lucy_Pyre]

Paladin is arguably just as simple as Warrior and does a fair margin more DPS, so that argument holds no weight.

[VictorTheed]

I got my ear to 80 but I miss the big heals inner beast gave us in previous expansions.

Any tips on war self healing ?, I would appreciate it much my friendd

[Lucy_Pyre]

I got my ear to 80 but I miss the big heals inner beast gave us in previous expansions.

Any tips on war self healing ?, I would appreciate it much my friendd

Just use Nascent Flash in conjunction with Fell Cleave/Inner Release/Inner Chaos/Upheaval. Really any of your harder hitting abilities will heal for a decent amount. You won't heal for any crazy large amount unless you're using Nascent during IR or with two IC charges, so the huge burst healing is a little more restricted, but it's still very much there.

[BarretOblivion]

Paladin is arguably just as simple as Warrior and does a fair margin more DPS, so that argument holds no weight.

Well yeah, they also have a window where they have a instant cast range attack. What's your point? It lets them be far more consistant than any other tank if you line up your requiscats. Something DRKs and WARs would kill for.