"Overhaul" please stop.

[Nandrolone]

This is a normal trend in MMOs. Once you've established yourself as a game for enthusiasts you need to dumb things down over and over to cater to a wider and wider public. Eventually the game loses all substance and everything goes downhill from there.
I'm hopeful that one day, someone will get it right. And to some extent FF14 devs are aware of this and that's why we have content like ultimates that only cater to a tiny player base. They said they would make some really hard crafts in the upcoming patches, lets see how that goes.
But I wonder sometimes if it's enough, the current state of healers is a perfect example of how harmful the process can be.

I absolutely agree with OP on every point he has made. Trust me, I know all companies want is money/numbers. That’s all that matters to them. However, maximizing those numbers should also be a priority. You cannot maximize numbers if you’re only catering to one audience. (Casual oriented stuff) Because if you cater to both types of audiences (casual players and serious players) you get the most out of those numbers.

As for crafting. I’ve been a hardcore crafter since ARR, currently have several billion gil, and I can say with certainty, that crafting is not fun anymore to me. I used to enjoy how complex the crafting system was. I actually didn’t use macros, I manually made my gear, it was fun and engaging. Now, that HQ Touches are all 100% guaranteed and there is no variety or skill involved (literally you just spam 1-2 macros) ....I just essentially stopped competitively crafting. And like OP said, dumbing things down to a point, makes it to where things are not rewarding or valuable at all. I don’t even craft anymore because of the unnecessary simplicity, and am waiting until my sub runs out. I’ll try the Expert Recipes in 5.2, but I doubt it’ll be the same at all.

The whole “Expert Recipe” Ranking thing just seems like a “Hey! Like hard crafts? Well guess what! You can do those endlessly.....without any meaningful rewards! No gil! No exclusive rewards! Nothing worth of value! All you get are mounts, and minions....and titles! Isn’t that great!”

It’s like....I understand you don’t want people feeling left out, but at least be reasonable when implementing such features.

[Brightamethyst]

No exclusive rewards! Nothing worth of value! All you get are mounts, and minions....and titles!

Um... what? Aren't mounts, minions, and titles the very definition of exclusive rewards in an MMO?

[Nandrolone]

Um... what? Aren't mounts, minions, and titles the very definition of exclusive rewards in an MMO?

Items that can be sold/traded on the marketboard, etc, are not exclusive. Locking them would be. Also, mounts + minions + titles are the 3 most useless things in the game for a crafter. Something useful for crafters would be: exclusive gear, tools, or just a way to earn gil.

[Vidu]

Items that can be sold/traded on the marketboard, etc, are not exclusive. Locking them would be. Also, mounts + minions + titles are the 3 most useless things in the game for a crafter. Something useful for crafters would be: exclusive gear, tools, or just a way to earn gil.

Titles are exclusive - they very much cant be sold on the marketboard.

Same goes for most mounts, the exception being the ones from PotD and HoH, aswell as certain Eureka-ones. All other mounts have to be earned through achievments or actually clearing the content they're tied to - often some of the more (or most) difficult content, aka raids and Ex-primals (and while both get easier over time, you'd still get quite a while of "prestige" out of those mounts if you earn them at the time they're current).

Minions are a bit more accessible, true - but even there you have some that cant be traded and are locked behind achievments or similar things. I'm not really sure why they stopped doing that tbh.

In regards to rewards for crafters I dont quite agree with your propsals here - especially with "or just a way to earn gil". At least not until they add stuff that actually costs tones of gil. I've been crafting since ARR, I own a mansion, I gave several friends money to buy their houses and by now I've pretty much stopped to make money - I've got several hundred million gil lying around and nothing to spend them on. Why should I bother with a "way to earn gil" if theres nothing I can do with those gil afterwards? I know that some people have this goal to reach the maximum amount of gil possible, but thats something that seems utterly use- and meaningless to me and doesnt feel like a reward for anything.
Gear and tools... well, those to me are only means to an end tbh - getting a better tool would only mean that crafting gets easier so I could craft more so I could earn more useless gil... doesnt seem great to me...
Mounts, minions and titles - or other form of "glamour"-items (maybe some exclusive glamour-gear instead of stuff that actually has stats?) - seem way more rewarding to me than just something that would make crafting easier or add more money, that has no use, to my pocket.

[Nandrolone]

Titles are exclusive - they very much cant be sold on the marketboard.

Same goes for most mounts, the exception being the ones from PotD and HoH, aswell as certain Eureka-ones. All other mounts have to be earned through achievments or actually clearing the content they're tied to - often some of the more (or most) difficult content, aka raids and Ex-primals (and while both get easier over time, you'd still get quite a while of "prestige" out of those mounts if you earn them at the time they're current).

Minions are a bit more accessible, true - but even there you have some that cant be traded and are locked behind achievments or similar things. I'm not really sure why they stopped doing that tbh.

In regards to rewards for crafters I dont quite agree with your propsals here - especially with "or just a way to earn gil". At least not until they add stuff that actually costs tones of gil. I've been crafting since ARR, I own a mansion, I gave several friends money to buy their houses and by now I've pretty much stopped to make money - I've got several hundred million gil lying around and nothing to spend them on. Why should I bother with a "way to earn gil" if theres nothing I can do with those gil afterwards? I know that some people have this goal to reach the maximum amount of gil possible, but thats something that seems utterly use- and meaningless to me and doesnt feel like a reward for anything.
Gear and tools... well, those to me are only means to an end tbh - getting a better tool would only mean that crafting gets easier so I could craft more so I could earn more useless gil... doesnt seem great to me...
Mounts, minions and titles - or other form of "glamour"-items (maybe some exclusive glamour-gear instead of stuff that actually has stats?) - seem way more rewarding to me than just something that would make crafting easier or add more money, that has no use, to my pocket.

I understand what you’re saying, I do. But, I’m going to have to disagree with your entire post there. What you’re suggesting doesn’t promote valuable rewards, or giving players the incentive to work harder to achieve a goal. Also, earning a lot of Gil is a personal achievement. Who are you or I to criticize the way someone chooses to play FFXIV? If someone wants to be casual, let them. If someone wants to play seriously, let them.

I think the issue here is the opposite side of the spectrum (obvious who) tries to silence and constantly criticize the other side. I’m sorry, but I’m gonna have to respectfully disagree with you there.

[Vidu]

I understand what you’re saying, I do. But, I’m going to have to disagree with your entire post there. What you’re suggesting doesn’t promote valuable rewards, or giving players the incentive to work harder to achieve a goal. Also, earning a lot of Gil is a personal achievement. Who are you or I to criticize the way someone chooses to play FFXIV? If someone wants to be casual, let them. If someone wants to play seriously, let them.

I think the issue here is the opposite side of the spectrum (obvious who) tries to silence and constantly criticize the other side. I’m sorry, but I’m gonna have to respectfully disagree with you there.

So... because you're personally not intrested in mounts, minions or titles they're not a worthy goal for anyone to work towards? They cant be a reward - even if they're untradable and have to be earned through an achievment, clearing some difficult content (which could include crafting of some kind, kinda like the first mastercrafter-books we had, if you remember them) - because you dont consider them a worthy goal?

I understand that for some people reaching the gil-limit is a personal goal and all the power to them! All I'm saying is that for some people - or at the very least me - a lot of the (untradable) mounts and titles are much better rewards and goals to work towards than a mountain of useless coin.
Wether or not they're a worthy goal for you - and I'll admit that we could do with some mounts and minions that are locked behind crafting challengens or achievments - is another question. It is however a fact that there are plenty of mounts, all of the titles and some minions that are exclusive, aka that cant be traded on the marketboard. Thats simply not something you can disagree with without ignoring the facts...

[Nandrolone]

So... because you're personally not intrested in mounts, minions or titles they're not a worthy goal for anyone to work towards? They cant be a reward - even if they're untradable and have to be earned through an achievment, clearing some difficult content (which could include crafting of some kind, kinda like the first mastercrafter-books we had, if you remember them) - because you dont consider them a worthy goal?

I understand that for some people reaching the gil-limit is a personal goal and all the power to them! All I'm saying is that for some people - or at the very least me - a lot of the (untradable) mounts and titles are much better rewards and goals to work towards than a mountain of useless coin.
Wether or not they're a worthy goal for you - and I'll admit that we could do with some mounts and minions that are locked behind crafting challengens or achievments - is another question. It is however a fact that there are plenty of mounts, all of the titles and some minions that are exclusive, aka that cant be traded on the marketboard. Thats simply not something you can disagree with without ignoring the facts...

Can you please tell me how exactly are minions, mounts, or titles in any way shape or form useful to a crafter’s arsenal? Let’s start there.

Also, if you want to talk about ignoring facts, can you also please tell me how you or I have the authority to criticize or demonize someone who chooses to play the game in a certain way? Whether they be casual or serious players?

[Packetdancer]

How about retainers will do the craft instead, so I can collect loot after some time. uwu

So I know you were more or less being sarcastic here, but I actually think crafting retainers could be interesting if done right. We already have gatherer retainers, after all. If you could do retainer "party" ventures with retainer roles (hunter, gatherer, crafter) for some of the more-common base materials used in other crafts.

So you could say "I would like 20 bolts of felt lining" and it says "that will take one combat retainer for hunting OR one miner, and one weaver retainer, both of level _<whatever>_" (to represent getting the materials and then crafting them) and charges you... say, 6 ventures. So you pick two retainers and pay the ventures and send them off, then you come back an hour and a half later and you have 20 bolts of felt lining without having to run in circles slaughtering karakul and grenades en masse until you have enough fleece and ash, etc.

It could also benefit SquareEnix financially as it would be a motive for folks to pick up additional retainers. That said, it would potentially undercut part of the marketboard economy—people farming low-level mats and putting stacks of them up for others to buy—which might not be ideal.

[EaMett]

The whole “Expert Recipe” Ranking thing just seems like a “Hey! Like hard crafts? Well guess what! You can do those endlessly.....without any meaningful rewards! No gil! No exclusive rewards! Nothing worth of value! All you get are mounts, and minions....and titles! Isn’t that great!”

I will admit to worrying that expert recipes would just be gated behind stupid stuff like either gear or low hq rates regardless of rotations. I can't see how they could push people into getting original with rotations for these recipes without at least reworking the specialty skills.
I used to get original with rotations and really pull some consistent specialty rotations out of nowhere that meant I could 100% HQ stuff with bad gear and I loved it. When the initial rework hit I lost the ability to do that and had to upgrade my gear to even get me back to where I was. I'm afraid we'll never see that aspect of crafting again.