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  1. #1
    Player
    purgatori's Avatar
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    Gridania
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    Purgatori Sakkara
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    Sophia
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    Dark Knight Lv 92
    Quote Originally Posted by Cilia View Post
    Actually, I would argue that due to the planet and everything living on it being split in fourteen when he was sundered, Zodiark is closer to a true god than Hydaelyn. Being an artificial god doesn't mean he's not a genuine one.
    Hmm, no, I think for the term 'god' to mean anything, it has to connote a being outside the created order, upon whom the created order is dependent. I don't think FF has ever posited the existence of such a being(s) in any of its iterations. The games generally take an anti-theistic stance, wherein supposed gods turn out to be in some manner fraudulent, or outright malevolent. I don't see XIV being an exception to this.

    The fact that the Star was sundered along with Zodiark to me implies that Hydaelyn's attack did not discriminate between the Star itself, and the supposed 'will of the Star' (Zodiark). This in no wise suggests that the Star itself is dependent upon Zodiark: it was just caught in the crossfire between two Primals.

    Quote Originally Posted by Theodric
    Hydaelyn isn't allowing humanity to operate independently, though. She actively allows those she has empowered to head off into the world and use their enhanced abilities to overthrow whoever they so please. In some cases it is justified in the name of putting down world ending threats. In other cases, however, it stifles the natural course of humanity's history - especially when the Warrior of Light starts to slay people over political differences.

    To allow the equivalent of an empowered soldier to dictate who rises to the top of society is not a case of allowing humanity to dictate its own fate. Especially when we know that they are not immune to bias.
    Agreed. I get the impression (from Dragonsong and elsewhere) that Hydaelyn has come to think of these 14x-diluted beings as her 'children,' and she doesn't want her children to 'grow up' (i.e., become unsundered), because then the relation would be reversed: she would be the 'child' (creation) of those who summoned her to begin with.
    (5)
    Last edited by purgatori; 01-27-2020 at 05:14 AM.

  2. #2
    Player
    MikkoAkure's Avatar
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    Limsa Lominsa
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    Midi Ajihri
    World
    Hyperion
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    Arcanist Lv 100
    Quote Originally Posted by purgatori View Post
    Hmm, no, I think for the term 'god' to mean anything, it has to connote a being outside the created order, upon whom the created order is dependent. I don't think FF has ever posited the existence of such a being(s) in any of its iterations. The games generally take an anti-theistic stance, wherein supposed gods turn out to be in some manner fraudulent, or outright malevolent. I don't see XIV being an exception to this.
    FFXI, which at least early FFXIV was based on, had Altana. She was an unambiguously good true goddess and like Hydaelyn, is connected to the Mothercrystal. In FFXI, Altana split the Mothercrystal into shards which sundered paradise and created the world we know now as Vana'diel. Sounds very familiar to Hydaelyn shattering the world into shards.
    (2)

  3. #3
    Player
    purgatori's Avatar
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    Purgatori Sakkara
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    Sophia
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    Dark Knight Lv 92
    Quote Originally Posted by MikkoAkure View Post
    FFXI, which at least early FFXIV was based on, had Altana. She was an unambiguously good true goddess and like Hydaelyn, is connected to the Mothercrystal. In FFXI, Altana split the Mothercrystal into shards which sundered paradise and created the world we know now as Vana'diel. Sounds very familiar to Hydaelyn shattering the world into shards.
    This seems like a legit example of an unambiguously good deity, so I'll grant that. I couldn't find any info about her sundering paradise, though? From what I could tell, there were already multiple mother crystals when she created the original sentient race, and then she created 5 other races after this original race was confounded by Promathia.

    Quote Originally Posted by Elladie
    Hydaelyn just feels like an advanced version of an Allagan drone (very advanced) that's a bit confused about where its maker has gone and not quite sure what to do so just keeps going with its original program. She even sounds like a garbled AI in Heavensward. I remember doing the Praetorium for the first time and wondering why she was so obsessed with just one thing. She literally never talks about anything else ever. It is creepy and a bit insane-sounding, and so I have always been wary of her. All the revelations that have come since have only deepened this for me. Which is why I say I hope there's some convincing story telling on the way if she is going to turn out to be Mother. I know they can pull it off because I loathed Solus in SB. Absolutely loathed him. But I loved Emet-Selch
    I really like this way of framing things. I have long thought that characterising either Hydaelyn or Zodiark as good/evil is wrongheaded, because this would imply moral agency, and I don't think that they—or any other Primal—has any. So far as I can tell, Primals are born with essentially one-track minds reflective of whatever fixation(s) their summoners had associated with the imaginary object of their summoning. Primals are not good or bad: they simply follow their programming. The consequences which ensue from the execution of that programming, on the other hand...
    (4)

  4. #4
    Player
    MikkoAkure's Avatar
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    Midi Ajihri
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    Hyperion
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    Arcanist Lv 100
    Quote Originally Posted by purgatori View Post
    This seems like a legit example of an unambiguously good deity, so I'll grant that. I couldn't find any info about her sundering paradise, though? From what I could tell, there were already multiple mother crystals when she created the original sentient race, and then she created 5 other races after this original race was confounded by Promathia.
    Correct, paradise was gone by the time she created the Zilart. But the living world was created by splitting the mothercrystal into 5 pieces. The Zilart wanted to go to paradise and attempted this by encasing the mothercrystals in cermet (the crags) and connecting them together and sending the energy to one place to join them together again and destroy Vana'diel and bring back paradise. But that would end the world and bring back the dark god Promathia so they were stopped by Bahamut, the Kuluu, the Dawn Maidens, and the summons. The only time Altana ever gets involved in the story is when you beat Promathia and then Altana beams him to death.
    (0)