Concerning recent developments of third party addons, and SE's DADT stance

[Lastelli]

I really don't get the hostility and belittling attitude that comes with those who responsibly use parsers. As long as people follow the unspoken 'don't be a dick about it' rule, you won't even know if someone's running one.

People just don't want to be told that they're bad, and anything that makes it easier to quantify their skill or lack thereof is bad and should be banned.

But hey, this is 2020, you just can't tell the truth if doing so hurts someone's feelings.

[Lauront]

SE ever adding addon support for an in game parser is out of the question. Yoshi himself stated he would never as it would ruin the prime rib. Uh, I mean, the stock in trade. No. What I meant to say is the money. Yes teh monies and teh feelings. You see, it'd offend and hurt the population of casuals, cause potential others to scare off, therefore slippery slope the game would become labeled WoW #2 Elites Only Mode Don't @ Me. Or something. FFXIV is like oprah show, our presence warrants a prize.

It's sorta laughable. SE wants to coddle the casuals while allowing the savage and up raiders to do what they want amongst themselves. You know, as long as little Bobby doesn't get upset. Because when Bobby wants to get in on the sweet sweet raiding and gets his feelings hurt then people start getting banned. Regardless, SE is comfortable with the current scene I'd venture a guess. Even if they weren't it'd be unwise on their part to announce it if they want to stay comfortable. Sorta like everything else they stay quiet on.

It really does seem to boil down to that - if they would just provide a parser themselves, none of this would be an issue. Safeguarding some people's fragile egos appears to be the reason they don't.

[Theodric]

I think, ultimately, it's just unfortunate that FFXIV is essentially held hostage by elements of the community where addons are concerned. In many ways the game takes strong cues from what other MMO's do - and WoW has a lot of neat addons that are useful not only for quality of life features but also for role-play related character profiles.

I can understand the aversion to some of the more controversial addons, though I fear that the blanket ban stifles things considerably. Addons worked for WoW and I don't doubt that they could work for FFXIV as well - though I have a sneaking suspicion that the ultimate reason we don't have them is because they wouldn't be available across all platforms and therefore would cause PC players to be at an advantage over PS4 players.

[HyoMinPark]

ah the parser supporters who can't read numbers or look at the meter next to their name in their party. Pathetic argument.

Ah, the anti-parsers who can’t understand that an enmity meter =/= a damage metric. Pathetic argument.

The enmity meter doesn’t tell me how much damage per second I’m doing. Not the same thing as a damage meter.

You can cry for SE to ban parsers and all of those who use them all day long—but it’s been how long since they were aware how common parsers are now? Years? And yet, there are still people using parsers on streams and they aren’t punished (the recent incident with Arthars is completely different...before that’s brought up). SE knows if they banned parsers and all the raiders who used them, that their raid scene would die. Behave when you use them, and nothing really happens. Which is perfectly fine.

Oh also, pardon me, this is an alt from a JPN server where no one is crippled by the NA/EU plague that is third party. Thanks for the assumptions though!

It’s cute that you think people on JP servers don’t use parsers.

[Saranade]

Ah, the anti-parsers who can’t understand that an enmity meter =/= a damage metric. Pathetic argument.

The enmity meter doesn’t tell me how much damage per second I’m doing. Not the same thing as a damage meter.

You can cry for SE to ban parsers and all of those who use them all day long—but it’s been how long since they were aware how common parsers are now? Years? And yet, there are still people using parsers on streams and they aren’t punished (the recent incident with Arthars is completely different...before that’s brought up). SE knows if they banned parsers and all the raiders who used them, that their raid scene would die. Behave when you use them, and nothing really happens. Which is perfectly fine.

Deviating from the topic at hand. The parser add on you are speaking of is now adding something that is going to animate telegraphs that aren't supposed to be (on top of it already calling out actions, on and hunts in the area)
Your argument directly conflicts with the ToS no matter how much you want to argue that this behavior has (unfortunately) been acceptable for the past years.

[Cyreil]

If they go after one mod, then they would be forced to go after all of them.

[HyoMinPark]

Deviating from the topic at hand. The parser add on you are speaking of is now adding something that is going to animate telegraphs that aren't supposed to be (on top of it already calling out actions, on and hunts in the area)

I wasn’t even talking about the particular add-on. I was talking about the parser as it is natively; i.e., a damage meter. You were the one who made a comparison of “damage” to the “enmity meters” next to your name in a party list. I was simply pointing out that they are not the same thing. Do try to keep up!

Your argument directly conflicts with the ToS no matter how much you want to argue that this behavior has (unfortunately) been acceptable for the past years.

SE hasn’t banned the Twitch streamers that stream world prog for Savage and Ultimate (which they watch) for using them. If they aren’t punishing for it, then why should people be afraid? Yoshida has said in the past that using a parser responsibly is fine, and that he understands how some raiders enjoy following their damage and seeing their numbers. As long as it’s used responsibly and discreetly, there is no issue. It’s when you cross the line and start harassing someone with it that it becomes an issue—as we saw recently with Arthars and what he did. SE took action against the harassment, and set a precedent for it.

[Saranade]

I wasn’t even talking about the particular add-on. I was talking about the parser as it is natively; i.e., a damage meter. You were the one who made a comparison of “damage” to the “enmity meters” next to your name in a party list. I was simply pointing out that they are not the same thing. Do try to keep up!



SE hasn’t banned the Twitch streamers that stream world prog for Savage and Ultimate (which they watch) for using them. If they aren’t punishing for it, then why should people be afraid? Yoshida has said in the past that using a parser responsibly is fine, and that he understands how some raiders enjoy following their damage and seeing their numbers. As long as it’s used responsibly and discreetly, there is no issue. It’s when you cross the line and start harassing someone with it that it becomes an issue—as we saw recently with Arthars and what he did. SE took action against the harassment, and set a precedent for it.

Using parsers responsibly, once again, is not the topic at hand, and you took my response out of context.
As far as who needs to keep up, its you.
The add on we are speaking of in this thread, is so advantageous is should not be allowed. Change my mind.

[HyoMinPark]

Using parsers responsibly, once again, is not the topic at hand, and you took my response out of context.
As far as who needs to keep up, its you.

Dude. You’ve spent this entire thread complaining that parsers are bad, the people who use them are bad, and all of them need to be banned. I’m taking your posts in the context you’re providing them in. Sorry, but you have made nothing but poor comparisons in this thread (e.g., all raiders who parse are toxic; enmity meter is the same as a damage metric) and silly comments (SE ban all parsers and raiders; JP servers aren’t “plagued by the third party” like NA/EU servers). If you have this many people “taking what you’re saying out of context”, perhaps look at what you’re saying. Most of it is, in my opinion, nonsensical and not even addressing the actual thread topic; i.e, this specific add-on. This is the first time you’ve even referenced it.

The add on we are speaking of in this thread, is so advantageous is should not be allowed. Change my mind.

Where was I even saying that this add-on should be allowed? Please actually read my posts before you start responding to them so that your replies will actually make sense.

Personally, I disagree with this add-on. I support parsers as a method to measure damage and analyze fights. I don’t support add-ons that project invisible telegraphs. There are no “change my mind” statements to make here. Nice try, though.

[Saranade]

Dude. You’ve spent this entire thread complaining that parsers are bad, the people who use them are bad, and all of them need to be banned. I’m taking your posts in the context you’re providing them in. Sorry, but you have made nothing but poor comparisons in this thread (e.g., all raiders who parse are toxic; enmity meter is the same as a damage metric) and silly comments (SE ban all parsers and raiders; JP servers aren’t “plagued by the third party” like NA/EU servers). If you have this many people “taking what you’re saying out of context”, perhaps look at what you’re saying. Most of it is, in my opinion, nonsensical and not even addressing the actual thread topic; i.e, this specific add-on. This is the first time you’ve even referenced it.



Where was I even saying that this add-on should be allowed? Please actually read my posts before you start responding to them so that your replies will actually make sense.

Personally, I disagree with this add-on. I support parsers as a method to measure damage and analyze fights. I don’t support add-ons that project invisible telegraphs. There are no “change my mind” statements to make here. Nice try, though.

Please just leave this discussion if you are off topic. This is about the add on both you and I disagree with.