Trust system vs Squadron. Both sound great, whats the difference?

[Enkidoh]

Stand in aoe and even move from safespot to bad spot.
Everyone gets the tether on second boss of dohn mheg, One then decides he wants yours, leaving two on the boss.

Not sure you want to follow what they are doing.

Well, I didn't say they were on the ball all the time. lol

So yeah, AI isn't yet human equivelant, and Trust AI certainly not, but it is still better than the dumber-than-dirt Squadron.

[tdb]

Stand in aoe and even move from safespot to bad spot.

So yeah, AI isn't yet human equivelant

I've seen human players who stand in AoE way more than trusts do :P

[Mhaeric]

Stand in aoe and even move from safespot to bad spot.
Everyone gets the tether on second boss of dohn mheg, One then decides he wants yours, leaving two on the boss.

Not sure you want to follow what they are doing.

A smart player would pick up on the idea that maybe they should move. There is no situation with Trusts where four tethers are covered then one decides to take yours. That is entirely on you to figure out which tether the other three Trusts (and by extension a party of 3 other players) is not covering. Which tether they pick is also fixed depending on your trust make up, so once it happens once you can just pick the same tether each time. Also a good habit with a party of players once you've jostled your positions the first time.

[Moonlite]

I don't get the squadrons need to be managed. I have run all the dungeons available multiple times. Target next mob and spam attack button. They almost never have to be re-positioned as they avoid most big attacks. No run takes longer then 15 mins. If you are running as dps tank and heal squadron look after each other. If you run healer tank needs very little heals as lots of attacks don't register. If you run as tank pull smaller or change the settings on healer.



The only complaints I could see are. If the boss has a target attack it will always be you since the bosses don't seem to recognize squadrons. Not all dungeons are available. No reason for some of them not to be available though, some would be impossible though and would only work with an AI that does mechanics. I don't count this as a complaint, but knowing the player base. "Oh no my immersion and lore the NPCs aren't doing mechanics how can I get involved in the story. This isn't the way it was meant to be played."

[Mhaeric]

If the boss has a target attack it will always be you since the bosses don't seem to recognize squadrons.

This is by design since squadron members have incredibly high damage resistance and boss mechanics targeting them would be rendered useless.

[purgatori]

I was pretty excited for Trusts, because I had the unreasonable hope that they would either be a) a massive improvement on Squadrons, or b) eventually function outside of instanced content, much like our current Chocobos do but with more personality (e.g., FFXI or, better yet, SWtOR). But while it's definitely neat to have NPC's that drop some lore tidbits during dungeons and who actually react to boss mechanics, the main effect that Trusts have on me is increasing my fondness for my Squadron, and their ability to complete demolish content—as opposed to chugging through trash pulls at an agonisingly slow pace.

The main benefit of Trusts will probably only really be apparent for players running through ShB for the first time months/years for now, as they won't have to contend with crazy queue times. But outside of that? Well, I've tried using them for levelling my other jobs from 70–80, but end up relying more on Roulettes, the new Beast Tribe, and FATEs. The Trusts are just too painful to run on repeat, and so I often end up abandoning my attempts part way through.

Trusts would have been a lot better if they had not been deliberately nerfed for fear of depopulating the DF, but given that this is a fear which seems to permeate so many of SE's design decisions, I don't see them reversing their stance on this one (granted, they have dubbed the new relic grind as being more 'independent' than Eureka, but how much do you want to bet that this ends up being as far from the case as it was for the 'solo job,' BLU?).

In my ideal vision of FFXIV's future, there would be no more forced group content at all, and one would always be able to elect to solo (where appropriate), or bring along AI companions—except for Savage and Ex, of course. The 'but this is an MMO' arguments don't really cut the mustard, as far as I'm concerned, because I have been playing MMO's since EverQuest launched, and have always played as a predominantly solo player who enjoys entering into transient, and incidental alliances with other players who, by their very presence, constitute a 'living, breathing world,' that I find quite appealing.

Right now, I think Squadrons probably represent a better way forward, as the devs don't need to imbue them with specific instruction sets for each and every encounter [1]. Most of the later dungeons don't have 'insta-fail' mechanics anyway, so long as the player can manually direct the Squadron during a DPS check, that should be enough for 90% of encounters. For the remaining 10%, specific instructions would probably need to be implemented (e.g., for the second boss of Dohn Mheg). On top of that, increasing the level cap, allowing Squaddies to take on Jobs, etc. would all be nice.

[1]: This is why I resist the idea of Trusts being 'smarter.' They're not. They have no capability at all to respond dynamically to situations. They execute a pre-programmed routine for every boss encounter, and won't deviate from that routine, even if the situation demands it.

[Vulcann]

all i want is for my trusts to be able to do Deep Dungeons with me.

and maybe allow me to queue trust dungeons with my wife and two AI.

[Brynne]

and maybe allow me to queue trust dungeons with my wife and two AI.

Yes, this. I'd love to do dungeons together with my husband and just fill the remaining spots with my story NPCs rather than pick up randoms in the queue or try to recruit friends when we just wanted a quiet evening of gaming together. Apparently it's "which trust belongs to which player" that makes it such a nightmare to program, but maybe they could solve that by defaulting to the party lead? It'd be nice if they could figure something out, anyway.

[Tyssyn]

I really like the trusts, personally. I am currently leveling all 4 melee dps. Considering that if I queue by myself for dps, I can be waiting anywhere from 10 minutes to over a half hour, usually closer to the half hour and a Holminster (what I am on now) takes me about 30-40 minutes. A DF run will take about 20 minutes if everyone is on the ball. So really, I am spending about the same amount of time, but I can do the dungeon at my own pace, go to the bathroom if necessary or run and grab a drink. I am not all that great at the melee classes either, so this way I don't feel like I am dragging a party of players down because I am not doing the dps someone who is good at the class would. When I start on tanks, I will do the same thing once they hit 71. I am nowhere near comfortable with tanking, this gives me a place to do it.

Squadrons however, I have only done with healers, because the healer for the squadron never seems to heal enough. I may try with my tanks (since they are 38-40 right now) to see if I like that any better, otherwise it will be PotD and HoH for me, with beast tribes and daily hunt marks helping.

[purgatori]

I really like the trusts, personally. I am currently leveling all 4 melee dps. Considering that if I queue by myself for dps, I can be waiting anywhere from 10 minutes to over a half hour, usually closer to the half hour and a Holminster (what I am on now) takes me about 30-40 minutes. A DF run will take about 20 minutes if everyone is on the ball. So really, I am spending about the same amount of time, but I can do the dungeon at my own pace, go to the bathroom if necessary or run and grab a drink. I am not all that great at the melee classes either, so this way I don't feel like I am dragging a party of players down because I am not doing the dps someone who is good at the class would. When I start on tanks, I will do the same thing once they hit 71. I am nowhere near comfortable with tanking, this gives me a place to do it.

Squadrons however, I have only done with healers, because the healer for the squadron never seems to heal enough. I may try with my tanks (since they are 38-40 right now) to see if I like that any better, otherwise it will be PotD and HoH for me, with beast tribes and daily hunt marks helping.

Yep, the practice element is a pretty important benefit that isn't always brought up in these discussions. I recently went back and started levelling my original job (DRG), which I have barely touched since HW. The Trusts and Squadrons have both been a nice way for me to get my head around the ways in which the job has changed, and to re-familiarise myself with how to keep up a good amount of damage as a melee DPS. Not only is it a lot more entertaining than wailing on a practice dummy (though this is also something I advocate), but you actually get to practice your rotations, OGCD management, etc. under 'real-world' conditions.

As for tanking with the Squadrons: It really depends on which dungeons you're doing. I'd say that, generally, healer has the easiest run in the majority of cases, but there are certain dungeons where tanks have it easier. That's been my experience, at least. The real problem is that your healer won't heal you unless you're under 50% HP, and in certain fights that's almost bound to get you killed.