Can we have changes to the market system?

[Jojoya]

yet here people sell under trader price depstie you can sell right away at the retainer, i simply not get it.

That's because they're not paying attention to the sell to vendor price when they go to list. They're just trying to undercut what's already listed.

The fun part is that when listing an item for sale on a retainer, the default price is the sell to vendor price yet players will still change it to be lower.

It's an opportunity for other players to make a small profit (especially useful for new characters with only a few thousand gil). Certain materia used to be a gold mine for this before SE dropped all the sell to vendor prices. Think it was Materia V that used to vendor for 990 gil and I'd be able to find a fair amount listed for under 500. Would take a little running back between a MB and the closest vendor but I could start with 2000 gil on a new character and be up to 15-20 thousand in a few minutes.

[Saix027]

That's because they're not paying attention to the sell to vendor price when they go to list. They're just trying to undercut what's already listed.

The fun part is that when listing an item for sale on a retainer, the default price is the sell to vendor price yet players will still change it to be lower.

It's an opportunity for other players to make a small profit (especially useful for new characters with only a few thousand gil). Certain materia used to be a gold mine for this before SE dropped all the sell to vendor prices. Think it was Materia V that used to vendor for 990 gil and I'd be able to find a fair amount listed for under 500. Would take a little running back between a MB and the closest vendor but I could start with 2000 gil on a new character and be up to 15-20 thousand in a few minutes.

The easiest they should do atleast without interfeering with the market is not able to sell under trader price, almost every MMO i know has that as standard for auction houses. Because in my eyes it is no suprise with the flood on gold sellers we have then aswell, regardless if SE sees them as being "customers" aswell paying subs but life could be overall easier i guess.

[Jojoya]

The easiest they should do atleast without interfeering with the market is not able to sell under trader price, almost every MMO i know has that as standard for auction houses. Because in my eyes it is no suprise with the flood on gold sellers we have then aswell, regardless if SE sees them as being "customers" aswell paying subs but life could be overall easier i guess.

What's the harm in another player wanting to sell to other players below the trader price, especially when they can produce the item for less than trader price? Take something like the Glade Bench, commonly used in housing. The trader/vendor price is 5000 gil. I can buy the materials to make it from a Material Supplier for 296 gil and farm up the 2 shards needed at no cost if I don't already have them. Why should the player not be allowed to sell it for less than 5000 when there's still plenty of room to profit? If they can't sell for less than 5000, there's no point in making the items since a buyer can buy it directly from a Manservant/Hokonin in their housing without having to run to a marketboard.

Not sure which MMOs you've been playing but I've never seen one set the trader/vendor price as a required minimum floor for player transactions. They usually have some sort of default suggested sell price that's a fraction of the vendor price (1.5% here, 35% in WoW). In all cases players are free to list below that price as long as it's not the lowest possible currency value.

It's players who are ultimately responsible for the gil sellers, not SE. And it's not the below sell to vendor prices on the MB that are forcing players to turn to the gil sellers. It's the insanely high prices that players set.

If lazy players didn't decide to buy from the gil sellers so they could afford what greedy players are selling at ridiculously high prices, gil sellers would be out of business.

[Saix027]

What's the harm in another player wanting to sell to other players below the trader price, especially when they can produce the item for less than trader price? Take something like the Glade Bench, commonly used in housing. The trader/vendor price is 5000 gil. I can buy the materials to make it from a Material Supplier for 296 gil and farm up the 2 shards needed at no cost if I don't already have them. Why should the player not be allowed to sell it for less than 5000 when there's still plenty of room to profit? If they can't sell for less than 5000, there's no point in making the items since a buyer can buy it directly from a Manservant/Hokonin in their housing without having to run to a marketboard.

Not sure which MMOs you've been playing but I've never seen one set the trader/vendor price as a required minimum floor for player transactions. They usually have some sort of default suggested sell price that's a fraction of the vendor price (1.5% here, 35% in WoW). In all cases players are free to list below that price as long as it's not the lowest possible currency value.

It's players who are ultimately responsible for the gil sellers, not SE. And it's not the below sell to vendor prices on the MB that are forcing players to turn to the gil sellers. It's the insanely high prices that players set.

If lazy players didn't decide to buy from the gil sellers so they could afford what greedy players are selling at ridiculously high prices, gil sellers would be out of business.

It hurts the market simply, those who hoard gil never able to spend it on things while others depstie having millions of gil it feels like oyu barely have money for anything, increaseing gold sellers and hurting the game.

A lot people leave the game because they are sick of the PM's and Zone messages from Gold Sellers, lowering the subs, making the game harder to provide to evolve again.

I simply see the whole picture in this and over time with more and more pointless resources added on top from SE's part, the market will crumble under it, look at thigns like the ARR filler quests between ARR and Heavensward, it is basically the same issue, people will get tired and annoyed at it, if they can't even use the market properly it might feel pointless for them since everything feels dragged out that way, people exist who focus on crafting and trading in such games and those pay subs for it and help the game.

The thing is what i not understand, how is good to sell under trader price? Yes for others its nice to get but, the item description tells you it is avilable on a trader, something to explore and see which trader sells what, if people are getting lazy like this how about we just let all the items sell automaticly then? Trash items, desync items you can only have once automaticly? This is lazy and why then play the game at all. Because this is the logic i hear out of this, defending SE at all cost as always for a simple fix i ask for, because people get more and more lazy.

Games should be fun and i not want it turn into work but you need to show some effort aswell if you want something out of it, not get everything served on a plate, if i wanted that i play games with "time savers" to skip most things, which is basically Gold Sellers in a nutshell aswell, skip for real money and buy expensive gear from the market as example. SE does themself simply no favor if they not start changing things.

My main change i want is stop clustering the game with to many to complicated crafting and items, we not need every new addon 300 new resources to gather, it is way to much simply, use old resorces more often in newer recepts, make everything somewhat valuable simply, stop making one time items like i think one of the Obsidian it was in game only used for ONE item in the wohle game. If you also want button bloat to stop you should also stop item bloat, but then again they sell retaienrs that way which, as much i love this game, is the biggest scam ever in a monthly subbed game, not even F2P games not do that, except maybe The Old Republic.

[Jojoya]

It hurts the market simply, those who hoard gil never able to spend it on things while others depstie having millions of gil it feels like oyu barely have money for anything, increaseing gold sellers and hurting the game.

Those who hoard gil can buy anything they want. The problem is the game doesn't give them anything worth spending it on.

Someone who's got millions of gil shouldn't be having a problem buying items priced below what vendor NPCs sell the item for.

Low prices doesn't increase the demand for RMT. It's the outrageously high prices that other players set that will increase RMT.

A lot people leave the game because they are sick of the PM's and Zone messages from Gold Sellers, lowering the subs, making the game harder to provide to evolve again.

Citation needed. I seriously doubt there are hordes of players quitting over RMT spam when it's a problem in every multiplayer online game.

RMT also doesn't keep a game from evolving. Evolution comes from new content ideas.

That's still got nothing to do with free market pricing and allowing players to list below the vendor price if they choose.

I simply see the whole picture in this and over time with more and more pointless resources added on top from SE's part, the market will crumble under it, look at thigns like the ARR filler quests between ARR and Heavensward, it is basically the same issue, people will get tired and annoyed at it, if they can't even use the market properly it might feel pointless for them since everything feels dragged out that way, people exist who focus on crafting and trading in such games and those pay subs for it and help the game.

You're talking about a problem that every MMO faces. Adding new content and features to keep the game interesting instead of expecting players to remain satisfied with only what was part of the game at initial release. People get bored when there's no significant change.

I'd agree that SE goes a bit overboard with the number of new crafting reagents added each expansion when crafting could rely more on creating new combinations of existing reagents yet there will always need to be some new items to make leveling the gathering professions feel meaningful.

That's still got nothing to do with free market pricing and allowing players to list below the vendor price if they choose.

The thing is what i not understand, how is good to sell under trader price? Yes for others its nice to get but, the item description tells you it is avilable on a trader, something to explore and see which trader sells what, if people are getting lazy like this how about we just let all the items sell automaticly then? Trash items, desync items you can only have once automaticly? This is lazy and why then play the game at all. Because this is the logic i hear out of this, defending SE at all cost as always for a simple fix i ask for, because people get more and more lazy.

How is it good? Because it gets the player to buy from the other player, giving the second player an income so they can buy the things they want. The first player saves gil in turn, allowing them to buy even more.

You might have an excess of time to waste so it doesn't bother you to have to track down what vendor is selling an item. Not everyone has the same amount of time available.

No one is being lazy. An action is being done to earn the gil.

You're not asking for a simple fix. You're asking SE to redesign the standard free market economy into a regulated economy ruled by what you personally want.

Thanks, no.

Games should be fun and i not want it turn into work but you need to show some effort aswell if you want something out of it, not get everything served on a plate, if i wanted that i play games with "time savers" to skip most things, which is basically Gold Sellers in a nutshell aswell, skip for real money and buy expensive gear from the market as example. SE does themself simply no favor if they not start changing things.

Fun is subjective. Not everyone finds the same things fun. It's why I don't play MOBA or FPS game - I don't find them fun.

I agree, people shouldn't be handed everything on a silver platter. But there is also a matter of what is reasonable for a game and which content should require more effort. Considering this game is focused around the idea that you're a mighty fighter and the only one capable of defeating certain evils, it makes no sense for the market system to be micromanaged.

SE has designed the game to be what they want it to be within the limitations they have to work with. It's not up to them to change the game to please you.

It's up to you to decide if you want to play the game they've made.

My main change i want is stop clustering the game with to many to complicated crafting and items, we not need every new addon 300 new resources to gather, it is way to much simply, use old resorces more often in newer recepts, make everything somewhat valuable simply, stop making one time items like i think one of the Obsidian it was in game only used for ONE item in the wohle game. If you also want button bloat to stop you should also stop item bloat, but then again they sell retaienrs that way which, as much i love this game, is the biggest scam ever in a monthly subbed game, not even F2P games not do that, except maybe The Old Republic.

Go back to what I said above. I agree to a degree but there will always be a need for new items to fuel progression and that will lead to the item database gradually increasing. There's no point in being a level 80 miner if everything useful that comes from mining can be gathered at level 50 yet a miner needs something to create the sense of progression as much as any other class.

You evidently haven't played a lot of F2P MMOs if you think they don't have their real money options for inventory expansion.

If you think it's a scam, then don't pay for additional retainers. Learn to manage your inventory better. You don't need to keep everything. You can gather or buy items only as you're ready to use them.

[KatCnaa]

My main change i want is stop clustering the game with to many to complicated crafting and items, we not need every new addon 300 new resources to gather, it is way to much simply, use old resorces more often in newer recepts, make everything somewhat valuable simply, stop making one time items like i think one of the Obsidian it was in game only used for ONE item in the wohle game. If you also want button bloat to stop you should also stop item bloat...

This is one of my biggest gripes about this game. There are enough mats that it takes 6+ retainers to keep mats in inventory for an omnicrafter, if everything you keep on hand is NQ, and you want to make anything. I would absolutely love to see old mats given new uses. I get annoyed when they bring out new furnishings--and they don't go into the economy, or they do in such a way that they're basically valued as junk, like the Ishgardian Restoration furnishings. And the ones from the Kupo scratch-offs devalue and flood the market with items that devalue the ones there. The scratch-offs are fun, and I really love winning delineations, minions and materia, but I don't think they help the economy or value of crafting much. ESPECIALLY when it builds more grinding crafting into the game, instead of crafting where people are selling items that other players want/need that has their name on it. So you get a sense of pride in what you've done.

That said, I know a lot of us enjoy discovering the newest nodes and characteristics on patch day. I wouldn't want to get rid of that. I like what SE did with the last doh/dol upgrade and just came out with a couple new gathered mats and reused older ones.

An economy that keeps as much of the in-game items and materials moving--to me--is the ideal. It means that people are obtaining things they want--at prices they're willing to pay--and crafters/gatherers get social and job fulfillment b/c they're using their jobs to do something fun and possibly challenging.