So, they fix 2B's tights due to community feedback...

[Gemina]

its really is sad when SE talks about 2b butts in length at a live letter which is a feature they only introduced at 5.1 while healers who suffer from various issues such as fairy delays,AST cards, AST card system and controller based issues with it ,the dull and boring gameplay since 5.0 never received a pip in a live letter.
from how i see it, that shows what SE truly thinks about the healer jobs which is healers aren't important at all .

My sentiments exactly. I brought up the very same thing in the 2B butt thread, and was pretty much appalled with the amount of time and attention that was given to a piece of human anatomy that doesn't affect the game at all other than where the devs are choosing to allocate their time. All the while, issues such as with our healers continue to get ignored.

I even remember looking at their faces in the huge live letter prior to ShB release that had the ability trailers. It was almost like they were extremely nervous to present to us what they came up with after it was specifically stated by them that they were looking at the healers, and want to address the balance issues. Little did we know then the forthcoming spade and neutering to the role that was the drastic changes to SCH and AST. A lot of us knew the nerf hammer was coming, but only a select few could predict that such drastic changes would be made without even touching what was truly going on with the healers in the first place.

[Berteaux_Braumegain]

...But they don't fix classes - like AST's cards - due to community feedback? I don't know if I should laugh or cry. xD

The devs are all about the ass, but not the AST.

[Gemina]

I do too. I can't speak for scholar I don't know it. I'm a WHM main and I love my role and what they did to it. I could care less about what the healer crowd has to say on this forum because in reality here people are never happy and they cry about everything. Relative to Astro I like the changes. Personally I don't feel the role is as strong as WHM and i love the instant heals we were given in the xpac.

That's not to say that Astro can't use any improvements but the cards are certainly not one of them in my view.

You speak as if WHM doesn't have any problems when it actually has one of the biggest issues out of all the healers. The lily mechanic in Stormblood forced the WHM to play sub optimally if they wanted to take advantage of what it did, which was reduce CDs on several of their abilities. In Shadowbringers, while they did rework the lily mechanic, it still forces the WHM to play sub optimally in order to use Misery.

The two biggest issues with healers that are brought up is basically the change to AST cards, and 80% of what SCH used to do was ripped from them. Believe it or not, these are actually a lesser issue and have little involvement with the crux of the problem.

True issues hindering actual gameplay are things like ASTs high APM and difficult MP management. They are the only healer that doesn't have a straight MP gain like SCH aetherflow/energy drain or WHM Assize/Thin air. Taking fairy skills off of the pet hotbar was a HUGE mistake. The fairy kit is also heavily underutilized, and interaction with the fairy is becoming more distant with each expansion. Both Seraph and Lily have delay issues. OGCD heals are specifically contributing to healer boredom since they are so powerful and plentiful, they eat up any and all need to heal via GCDs, which many healers actually find engaging. WHM still has clipping issues, and the devs seem to think that giving them more instant cast abilities that are still on the GCD (the cause), will fix this issue.

Call those cries if you like, but I should remind you that even a broken clock is right twice a day.

[CazzT]

I keep seeing people say that the old AST system was "fish for balance". If that's how you were playing AST, you were bad at AST. Bole saved the tank I was healing on numerous occasions, Ewer gave me enough mana to hold out for that extra 10-15 seconds where I wouldn't have had any mana at all left, Arrow (that was the crit card, right?) timed with BRD songs gave BRDs insane burst potential... Only people that were bad at AST would fish for balance.

[Gemina]

I keep seeing people say that the old AST system was "fish for balance". If that's how you were playing AST, you were bad at AST. Bole saved the tank I was healing on numerous occasions, Ewer gave me enough mana to hold out for that extra 10-15 seconds where I wouldn't have had any mana at all left, Arrow (that was the crit card, right?) timed with BRD songs gave BRDs insane burst potential... Only people that were bad at AST would fish for balance.

I far more often find players fooled by the illusion of choice that was the previous system. If you weren't fishing for balance, you weren't doing what other players brought you in the party to do. Cards like the Bole and the Ewer were situational at best. Even in an optimal scenario to use them, neither were readily available to you because of the RNG. You would never use spread on an Ewer or a Bole to have for those situations because there is no guarantee they will come to pass. Royal Road; Spread; Redraw; Sleeve Draw... all a means to shave away the layers of RNG so you can AoE the Balance. If all else failed, then 99.9% of the time the card would be Minor Arcana fodder.

Tanks have their own mitigation, caster jobs all have the means to restore their own MP. Your bole, and your ewer was hardly ever needed, and in the situations where they helped, it was very likely because things weren't going right in the first place. Even then, the increase to raid DPS is still going to be more favorable as high outgoing DMG is one of the best ways to mitigate incoming DMG.

All balance. All the time. Always, or GTFO. That was the SB AST everyone loves so much.

[Saefinn]

I keep seeing people say that the old AST system was "fish for balance". If that's how you were playing AST, you were bad at AST. Bole saved the tank I was healing on numerous occasions, Ewer gave me enough mana to hold out for that extra 10-15 seconds where I wouldn't have had any mana at all left, Arrow (that was the crit card, right?) timed with BRD songs gave BRDs insane burst potential... Only people that were bad at AST would fish for balance.

I feel all they needed to do to keep those who fish for balance happy would have been to do what they did to Minor Arcana this time around. If they don’t like the card they’ve got, use a weaker version of the balance (as it is weaker than the old balance), it also remains an option if you don’t need the card you’ve drawn, you can make it useful.

[Raven2014]

You speak as if WHM doesn't have any problems when it actually has one of the biggest issues out of all the healers. The lily mechanic in Stormblood forced the WHM to play sub optimally if they wanted to take advantage of what it did, which was reduce CDs on several of their abilities. In Shadowbringers, while they did rework the lily mechanic, it still forces the WHM to play sub optimally in order to use Misery.

Eh ... no? I'm going through SB's Ultimate again and I'm sorely missing Rapture and Misery at lvl70, after clearing Eden Savage casting that many medica and cure 3 doesn't feel right anymore. Not to mention the lack of mobility after losing those skills.

What you are saying only apply to "BAD" Whitemage, aka those who spam lily just for the sake of getting misery. I know that's an real issue since whenever I don't play WHM in pug, I often see other (bad) WHM brag about spamming to get bloodlily, it's pretty much meme level. Also these WHM tend to care only about their DPS and often forget they're healer (that doesn't make them great at DPSing though). Proper WHM use the lily system to its full benefit both to maximize their DPS while fulfilling their role as a healer.

Proper WHM look at Misery as a refund system.

- Normal 4 GCD windows: if we have a to cast 3 Cure or 3 Medica and a glare, then it's 3 completely lost GCD (900 potency) in term of DPS.
- Lily 4 GCD windows: if we use 3 Afflatus skills and misery, then we only lose 1 GCD (300 potency) in term of DPS.

So it's not about losing 300 potency comparing to casting 4 glares, it's about only lose 300 while we would lose 900 otherwise. And that's only half of the benefit, the other half is the lily 4GCD windows are all instant cast, meaning large amount of mobility AND weaving opportunity. Consider how many oGCD and skill activation WHM has (Assize, Asylum, Temperance, Plenary, Benison, Tetra) plus situational (Swiftcast, Lucid, Thin Air, Presence, Bene), the afflatus are god sent since it means we almost never have to hard-clip a GCD or prematurely renew Regen or Dia. If you want to talk about futher optimization then pretty much all the fights so far have down window for you to dump lily if you just want to get Misery without losing actual DPS GCD, for example both Maelstrom phase in E3S.

For the record it did take SE a whole expack to make the lily system working well. As a WHM main I consider the class is so perfect now it's almost scary, I'm fearing this mean WHM gonna get screw up badly in the next expansion patch.

[CazzT]

I far more often find players fooled by the illusion of choice that was the previous system. If you weren't fishing for balance, you weren't doing what other players brought you in the party to do. Cards like the Bole and the Ewer were situational at best. Even in an optimal scenario to use them, neither were readily available to you because of the RNG. You would never use spread on an Ewer or a Bole to have for those situations because there is no guarantee they will come to pass. Royal Road; Spread; Redraw; Sleeve Draw... all a means to shave away the layers of RNG so you can AoE the Balance. If all else failed, then 99.9% of the time the card would be Minor Arcana fodder.

Tanks have their own mitigation, caster jobs all have the means to restore their own MP. Your bole, and your ewer was hardly ever needed, and in the situations where they helped, it was very likely because things weren't going right in the first place. Even then, the increase to raid DPS is still going to be more favorable as high outgoing DMG is one of the best ways to mitigate incoming DMG.

All balance. All the time. Always, or GTFO. That was the SB AST everyone loves so much.

And this is what separates the good AST from the bad. If you only saw them as situational, then you weren't using them correctly.

Bole Spread was added mitigation during group busters. Ewer spread I would agree is next to useless.
I agree the RNG aspect is a problem. But instead of addressing and fixing the problem, they left it in; RNG is still a problem.

[Zanarkand-Ronso]

Im sure its somewhere in here and I missed it.....but what is so bad about Ast's new card system again?
The only things I ever hear (of course I could easily be missing the argument) is how the Balance Meta is now gone. And how people miss just fishing for Balance.
Like its the Only card that mattered.

[CazzT]

Im sure its somewhere in here and I missed it.....but what is so bad about Ast's new card system again?
The only things I ever hear (of course I could easily be missing the argument) is how the Balance Meta is now gone. And how people miss just fishing for Balance.
Like its the Only card that mattered.

Objectively, the current system is not bad. And it wouldn't be an issue if it had been implemented as it is from the beginning.

Consider that you've been dining on steak and wine with lush vegetables and delicious three tier cake. Now, instead of this delicious meal, you're only offered water and crackers.

This current system is water and crackers. It has no depth, it's bland, it's boring. Is it effective? Sure. It's just boring and bland. It doesn't have the flavor and engagement that the original system had.

As for fishing for balance, as I've stated, only people are bad at AST did that. It's become a meme about the AST, kinda like "healer adjust" is a meme. Very few people actually played AST like that and even fewer groups expected AST to be played that way.