How About a Little Love for Mages, Please

[Charismatic]

1. Limits what weapons you can use down to a couple options (granted, materia tiers requiring certain levels is already doing that to an extent, no Fire Brand for my fire spells...)
2. Yet another stat to have to factor in, when we could just keep going off the additional stats everyone is used to. They are verified to work.
3. It removes the edge from us who have taken the time to properly meld weapons for max damage with the system that is already in place.
4. Massively dumbs down a system that rewards players that put thought into what they buy/meld. Due to spell damage increase being shifted onto weapon's base damage vs additional stats, INT *will* be nerfed accordingly if it goes in.

[*]This first one essentially means nothing, we're already limited to a couple of options... so being limited to a couple of options........... does nothing.
[*]Yet another stat to factor in, yes. So? How is this bad exactly? It is fact that there's another stat to factor in but I don't see why this is a negative thing, you haven't explained how or why this is so.
[*]Yes, making this change would take the edge out of your badass melded weapons but you're going to be in for a big shocker when it happens anyway. Do you really think these weapons are going to be the best forever?
[*]You're going to have to explain to me how this dumbs down anything. Yes, base damage will now be a factor but so will everything else. With enough int/potency whatever else you have, a weapon with lower base damage might still outdamage one with higher base damage. In fact, as far as I can tell it'd add complexity rather than removing it. One way or the other, neither sounds superior to the other system simply due to being more or less complex.


Your 3rd complaint is really the only one that holds any water imo and its something that is going to happen eventually anyway so I can't really say I think it matters all that much.

[Brigandier]

/em fingers in ears I can't hear you NA NA NA I CAN'T HEAR YOU NOT LISTENING

ITT: People wanting something stupid so bad they are willing to ignore pages of text detailing why it is a bad thing.

[Charismatic]

Yeah, nothing on any of these pages addresses what I just said bro.

[Ashthra]

So, since trying to explain with you folks why making the weapon damage affect spell damage is a good thing, lets turn the tables.

Please explain to me why making the weapon damage affect spell damage is a bad thing.

So, in other words, he wants to break current stat scaling because he doesn't like that his weapon damage is going to waste? Because that's what would happen -- do you really think SE is going to go, "Yep, sure, here, have this 20% boost in damage, free of charge! ^_^" No, they're going to rebalance the stat:damage ratio Mages receive, because if Mages could benefit from their stats, weapon damage, and be allowed to nuke at range without waiting on TP the way melee classes currently do, what (aside from potential downtime) would be the downside to rolling a Mage versus anything but a GLD?

Would it be neat to see weapon damage not go to waste and have an actual effect on spell damage/healing? Sure. But don't expect your damage or healing to get any higher as a result of it, and prepare yourself for the joy of being shoehorned into 2H weapons because 1H+shield will never compete.

Which, again, would break stat scaling, because they would have to go under the assumption that current damage is done with the best weapon available, and then subtracting from that. In other words, if you're not rocking the best 2H weapon in the game, prepare to see your damage/healing get nerfed very noticeably, and receive nothing in return except the piece of mind that, "Well, now I have to reason to hunt for that new weapon!"

My idea? Reduce the melee stat damage to near zero for all mage weapons, and forward those freed up stat points (or whatever SE goes by) into greatly increasing the stats the higher level weapons have. [...] I'll agree, the higher level weapons could definitely use more punch and pizzazz (melding is a great perk, but that shouldn't be their biggest selling point), but the OP's suggestion would cause far more problems than it would solve. Which is to say, it wouldn't solve any problems at all.

You're welcome.

[Charismatic]

So... an assumption of how they would balance it (based on absolutely nothing) is what I'm supposed to go on? Yeah, no.
If there's anything I've learned while being on the forums is that assuming you know what Square-Enix is gonna do, you're gonna be wrong most of the time. Lets not go there.

[Hikozaemon]

I often wonder if the game designers even play this game, and while there are many things that make me wonder this, here's one, in particular, that strongly contributes to my questioning.

When I look at a mage weapon, I see meele stats, specifically, damage, delay, type of damage. What I don't see are the stats that matter most to a mage - matk, macc, cure potency, etc. So, essentially, you can't look at a weapon in the market wards and know which mage weapons are > than others. Mages don't care, nor should they, about meele stats.

While this is most annoying, in itself, what's even more discerning is the fact that mage weapons, have very little to do with mage performance. I'm sure most mages in our esteemed forum already know this, I'm guessing some may not, and most certainly, the game designers clearly don't get it.

Here is a small sample of Thunder nuke damage by a 50 thm on a level 50 Zahar'ak Drubber. No crits are included, all other gear is constant, and while the sample is small, the point is obvious.

Weathered Scepter (1) 459 480 457 468 488 484 488 458 459 450 = avg damage 469

Electrum Scepter (43) 492 467 491 461 461 494 453 467 465 463 = avg damage 471

Verdant Scepter (50) 478 470 494 504 470 474 502 464 500 468 = avg damage 482

So let me save you the math - a level 50 U/U weapon does +2.8% more damage than a level 1. Now I ask, is there anything wrong with this picture? >< If a lancer/marauder/archer essentially experienced the same damage with a level 50 weapon as a level 1, this forum would be jammed with outrage.

So, how about it SE? Would it be that difficult to make mage weapon stats obvious and pertinent? I don't think it's asking too much to see relavent mage stats when we look at a weapon (tools, for example, have their own set of visible parameters), and expect performance increases not unlike meele weapons.

YOU DOING SOMETHING WRONG BECAUSE I DO SHIT TONS OF DMG W/ MY THM SO MUCH SO THAT WHEN I PLAY THM DURING MOOGLE OR IFRIT I STEAL HATE FROM GOOD TANKS AND GET GANG-BEATINGS BY MOOGLES CONSTANTLY. I LOVE CAPS LOCK I CAN READ IT EASIER* Anyways you dont understand the game mechanics very well my thunders do 270-300ish dmg on ifrit my thundaras spike up to 900ish sometimes on crits and my thundagas break 1k. On moogles i get 1.1k+ crits on thundara and 1.7k thundagas i eat shit for breakfast on thm. WHY? because i understand how stats work and i built good nuking gear im packing 338int and 330pie w/ a load of magic attk and acc. BTW u get more dmg boost/return for int than magic attk. You need pie to land enfeebles like bind from blizzara and magic acc to land full dmg nukes and combo. Im only at double melds right now but once i get tripple melds im sure my dmg will increase even more. I'm already doing 200-700 more dmg a nuke than a crapily equipped THM. FYI get a damn lightining brand .......

[Ashthra]

So... an assumption of how they would balance it (based on absolutely nothing) is what I'm supposed to go on? Yeah, no.
If there's anything I've learned while being on the forums is that assuming you know what Square-Enix is gonna do, you're gonna be wrong most of the time. Lets not go there.

The assumption is based upon past experiences in various MMOs (including FFXI), because no developer worth their salt would ever straight up buff a core algorithm/mechanic without taking into account how that buff is going to affect their job and class balance as a whole. Of course, this is SE we're talking about, so maybe they don't give a shit, but take a trip into the Wayback Machine and check out the reasoning behind class buffs/nerfs in the past, in both this game and others. This crap isn't decided in a vacuum, you know -- they have to take real scenarios into account.

[*]This first one essentially means nothing, we're already limited to a couple of options... so being limited to a couple of options........... does nothing.
[*]Yet another stat to factor in, yes. So? How is this bad exactly? It is fact that there's another stat to factor in but I don't see why this is a negative thing, you haven't explained how or why this is so.
[*]Yes, making this change would take the edge out of your badass melded weapons but you're going to be in for a big shocker when it happens anyway. Do you really think these weapons are going to be the best forever?
[*]You're going to have to explain to me how this dumbs down anything. Yes, base damage will now be a factor but so will everything else. With enough int/potency whatever else you have, a weapon with lower base damage might still outdamage one with higher base damage. In fact, as far as I can tell it'd add complexity rather than removing it. One way or the other, neither sounds superior to the other system simply due to being more or less complex.


Your 3rd complaint is really the only one that holds any water imo and its something that is going to happen eventually anyway so I can't really say I think it matters all that much.

1) You're limited to a couple of options now due to lack of weapons across the board. Implementing something like this would force any self-respecting caster to use a 2H for the extra damage component, thus rendering 1H completely pointless. Nothing quite like the obsolescence of an entire type of weaponry to give us compelling choices, no?

2) It wouldn't just be "another stat" if the OP had his wish -- as he explicitly states that he wants your spell damage to be affected by it. So, one of two things would happen: either the scaling of the weapon damage would be so weak that it wouldn't make a damn bit of difference, rendering this entire discussion moot (and the damage stat still worthless), or it would be strong enough to make a very noticeable difference, thus becoming the stat to watch out for, rendering all other stats on the weapon utterly useless.

3) Third point is granted; the, "But, but, I already spent X gil pimping out my weapon!" is fairly poor reasoning.

4) As stated above, SE wouldn't just add this on top of the system currently. They would change scaling values appropriately so in the end, you will gain no damage/healing. All a change like this would accomplish is turn your weapon from the least powerful item to the most powerful item in your arsenal, simply by virtue of how big the numbers are in the damage box. That's not dumbing it down?

And by the way, this entire discussion is moot -- the damage between level 1 and 50 caster weapons are so close that even if SE was stupid enough to implement something like this, the change the OP is looking for would never come. He'd still be doing 10 more damage with a level 50 weapon as a level 1 weapon because IT'S THE SCALING THAT'S CAUSING HIS ISSUES, NOT THE $@#%ING WEAPON DAMAGE.

That is all.

[akisato]

OK, read most of the post here and i get what OP is saying but mage's damage is based on int while DoW damage is based on str and weapon damage. So the mix up here seems to be that ppl believe that weapon damage should be part of spell damage but it not and there nothing wrong here.

[CTSwiftheal]

lol its funny, hungerforce got you all fired up.

you guys are argueing about argueing when the the op is talking about scaleing spell dmg with the lvl of the weapon you guys are talking about materia and bonus stats.

i really think eveyone on the forums could use some sort of comprehension class.

[OriginalHungerforce]

OK, read most of the post here and i get what OP is saying but mage's damage is based on int while DoW damage is based on str and weapon damage. So the mix up here seems to be that ppl believe that weapon damage should be part of spell damage but it not and there nothing wrong here.

That has nothing to do with this, this thread really attracted all the window lickers.