PLDs: You have Clemency for a reason.

[Lastelli]

If a PLD has to resort to using clemency, either he's not using his CDs correctly or the healer is just bad or they're severely undergeared.

And yes I'm talking about wall to wall dungeon pulls.

[GhostXO]

I posted what I mostly wanted to say to you on a different thread-the quitting healing one- so I reccomend you take a peep.

I think what others have said in this thread are valid points. I also think that tanks who have no idea where their healers are and how they are reacting during a big pull are major dummies.

As a healer I like to be on the tanks booty during pulls so I can slap some OGCDs on them to make sure that when we finally start to dps the pull their hind end won't just immediately cease to exist.

As a tank, if I get a swiftcast + aldo, aspected bene, excog etc during a pull and the healer is not far behind I know I'm good to pull more. If they are hard casting aldos (which makes them slower) and prancing behind me like a baby fawn...uh oh! I know to slow down. But it takes awareness for tanks to look back and think of their healers, something that many bad tanks lack. You just have to pick up their slack as a healer and expect the worst.

The tank you were paired with might have not been acutely aware of the situations they were being put in and reacted poorly, but expecting them to spam Clem is kind of over the top?

I think what you should take from this experience is that no player is a mind reader. If you have issues with their play styles and think that by playing differently your group could have a faster and smoother run, you should ask that of them in the chat. Communication is good, and a lot of players appreciate it

[AmeliaVerves]

Sacred Soil is rly underwhelming for dungeon pulls, you get more value from that AF stack when keepig it for Lustrate, just saying. :v


I don't rly have a lot to say but: both parties did mistakes imo. You could have asked the tank to slow down and the tank was probably wrong to keep pushing after your initial wipe, so a lack of communication on both ends, probably?
PLDs shouldnt need to Clemency per se in regular dungeons tho and you shouldnt really expect ppl to adjust on the fly or at all, bc, well, it's DF and you meet all kinds of ppl.

[Alistaire]

First pull, she mashes Sprint

I don't wanna rehash everyone else talking about how much paladins should NOT be using clemency in dungeons, so let's talk about this for a second.

You say this like that's a bad thing, or even an urgent thing.

Sprint's free now, and not particularly required for hold for any specific mechanic. If there's anything that should be going off x4 at the start of a dungeon it's sprint. Use it. Keybind it to something. There's nothing "mashing" or "speedrunning" about it. As a healer, you should be expecting, and be ready for tanks to use it.

[WhyAmIHere]

K this is a troll post.

"After the 2nd boss, she decides it's a really great idea to do a 2-group pull, and pop Hallowed Ground first thing. That's fine and all, until we get to the part where the DPS were taking their time killing the mobs, and I wound up blowing an Excog, Sacred Soil, and two Lustrates."

after the 2nd boss you /cannot/ pull more than just one pack at a time due to how they spawn.

[Maeka]

I don't wanna rehash everyone else talking about how much paladins should NOT be using clemency in dungeons, so let's talk about this for a second.

You say this like that's a bad thing, or even an urgent thing.

Sprint's free now, and not particularly required for hold for any specific mechanic. If there's anything that should be going off x4 at the start of a dungeon it's sprint. Use it. Keybind it to something. There's nothing "mashing" or "speedrunning" about it. As a healer, you should be expecting, and be ready for tanks to use it.

Yeah, but when there's a wipe on the first 3-group pull, you'd think maybe they'd go "Uh maybe I shouldn't be pulling 3 groups, then?" and go down to 2 groups.

Really I wish I understood what the frick is the hurry that you MUST pull 3 groups ALWAYS. I've always hated that junk, but I hate it even more on SCH because they just have so few tools to deal with that.

[Alistaire]

Yeah, but when there's a wipe on the first 3-group pull, you'd think maybe they'd go "Uh maybe I shouldn't be pulling 3 groups, then?" and go down to 2 groups.

Really I wish I understood what the frick is the hurry that you MUST pull 3 groups ALWAYS. I've always hated that junk, but I hate it even more on SCH because they just have so few tools to deal with that.

That has nothing to do with what I posted, but I'll respond. Changing how much you pull after a wipe will depend on how that pull went, why it went bad, and hopefully asking the person who messed up if they're fine with trying it again or if it's too much for them.

But if you always hate people pulling specifically "3 groups" all I can say is maybe run some dungeons as a dps and watch other healers do it.

[Maeka]

K this is a troll post.

"After the 2nd boss, she decides it's a really great idea to do a 2-group pull, and pop Hallowed Ground first thing. That's fine and all, until we get to the part where the DPS were taking their time killing the mobs, and I wound up blowing an Excog, Sacred Soil, and two Lustrates."

after the 2nd boss you /cannot/ pull more than just one pack at a time due to how they spawn.

So I did Holminster Switch again this morning with trusts, and I got mixed up, I meant after the first boss. That long pathway with the gremlins. Some reason I was thinking that section was after the second boss. It had been awhile since I had done that dungeon, and I just remember a boss, and a long narrow pathway with gremlins. *shrug* Kinda silly to call someone a troll because they got segments of the dungeon mixed up with each other. By the time I got to that gremlin area, it just felt like it was taking forever because of the stress and because of how much I wanted that dungeon run to be over.

This is not a troll thread, I simply got mixed up on what section was where in the dungeon.

As for Alistaire's comments...

I thought about this, and...

Not paying attention to things like major cooldowns of your healers is a fail. A tank's job is all about situational awareness and failing to understand your healer and the cooldowns they are using if you are going to do something you know by now is a risky move, is just plain fail all the way around.

Just doing what you want to do and not caring about the rest of the group is not a good habit for any tank to get into, a tank needs to be mindful of the rest of the group, just like a healer should. The only people that can really get away with only caring about the enemies they are attacking are DPS and even then I would argue that they should at least pay attention to what's going on around them (for things like stack mechanics).

[Palibun]

Plds should always refrain from clem, if you ask me, this seems partly your fault. You never mentioned if she popped cds like rampart, but if she did and was well geared then sorry, you weren't healing well. I probably would've popped clem myself just to prevent a wipe but still, theres no reason a pld should be forced to clem and you shouldn't. Clem cuts dps and is an mp waste.

I wall to wall holm every time, never click clem, and i never die. I do think she should've cooled it on the pulls if you wiped 3 times, but still, you cant blame the tank for every wipe. It's your job to pay attention to how big they pull, sprint when they sprint, and heal according to their needs.

I feel like we're not getting the full story here tho. Did they cd? How was the parties dps? Did you even TELL her you were on cd? We dont always know what you healers have on cd btw, especially if that tank doesn't level any healers. Not my and other tanks job to baby you healers, nor do i want people to baby me when i play ast.

Im just saying, im not inclined to think the tank was that bad with such an unclear story and the fact that you dont see to really understand pld or the fundementals of big pulls.

[Magnedeus]

If a PLD has to resort to using clemency, either he's not using his CDs correctly or the healer is just bad or they're severely undergeared.

And yes I'm talking about wall to wall dungeon pulls.

When i was healing on my wht mage I had a pld tank cast Clemency on himself every time they would drop to 80% health just because they could. As a pld main i cringed whenever i see that.