Male Viera as a playable character! show your support

[Gwenorai]

Mad and aggressive doesn't describe actual physical, stout and muscular does describe their physical appearance. Being mad/aggressive is simply how they would come across in personality. If all the males are viewed as mad/aggressive then all of them should have that specific body language where when they idle - they should come across as aggressive. When they emote; they should also be aggressive. We can't forget that their dominant personalities are what will form the basis of their emotes.

The issue with Xaela females is that they got thoroughly done dirty and had to share emotes/stance with the Raen who are not aggressive. If it was just Xaela I would bet my cup of coffee that they wouldn't be so cute. Think of fHighlander where when they idle they're usually in some sort of 'power stance'.

In regards to ff12; I can go through that quest and double-check. What is said, might take me a week or more since FF12 hasn't been first and foremost in my mind. It will be on my switch - so i'll try my best to make the images presentable. If they don't say anything I'll be sure to say that nothing has been said. I'm playing the Zodiac version, which was originally Japanese only. So hopefully the translation was smooth come across. I can try to switch it to Japanese voices and hope that the translation in the subtitles is the one we're looking for.

The Ultimana book seems to be a bit conflicting - because the Vii males we came across aren't seen as aggressive. We know that one of them intervened to save a Vii female but ran away when he saw us, not wanting to get involved. Another was talked about in regards to his daughter daydreaming about him. But she only really said 'Papa* is that you?' In some form or fashion.

Viera males in FF14 aren't described as 'mad' either - but they are described as extremely cold-blooded, and not someone you want to come across. Hence my argument that mad just means they come across as aggressive. They will kill you, and it doesn't matter what your reasons are for being in their territory. They're worse than Xaela in that. Xaela at least allow for trade and accept other races into their clans. Some of them are seen as extremely derpy as well. Even Magnai is seen as a bit of a joke. Viera males, while we haven't seen any of that. The imagery is built up that they are perhaps one of the most aggressive 'males' in the FF world. I haven't seen a humanoid race in FF14 that as described as harshly as the Viera males are actually in-game.

Edit; for those wondering what I mean why the males are 'aggressive' here's a snippet from FF14 lore regarding the 24 man in Ivalice.
'As I explained before, the duty of a male Viera─a Wood-warder─is to see that their tribe’s demesne remain untouched by the destructive whims of outsiders. Yet, they do so from the shadows, oft choosing to shoot first, and not even bother with questions. '

Here is the rest of the lore dump jhere. As you can see, the life of a Viera male is pretty intense.

[Senn]

I think even if they are "short" by Viera standards, they would probably be seen as tall by the standards of the other races. Either way, I think their inclusion can only be a positive addition to the game itself.

Yeah, that's what I've been saying too. They would still be tall, even if they are shorter than the females. I really do hope they are added one day in the future!

stout and muscular

That is, if they were actually described that way. Take your time playing, but let me know what the text says when you get to that part. I don't doubt they will be muscular (you can still be slim and toned), but I am doubtful about the stout description, especially since Matsuno made comments on the male viera appearance (going back to his comments on Ashita no Joe), and how Yoshi P mused about them being slim, handsome, and elegant.

edit:

They're worse than Xaela in that. Xaela at least allow for trade and accept other races into their clans.

Actually, male viera do trade as well, but only with other viera. Since that one male viera protected the vii female, and since she thought perhaps she could have even introduced us to him, maybe they aren't that bad. Xaela are pretty bad - fighting each other and war is pretty much engraved in their culture. Xaela also enslave people. Male viera brave the wilderness and are fine hunters, but as far as we know, they don't necessarily have any battle royales with other viera, only territorial spats.

It does seem like ffxiv viera and ffxii viera are a little bit different from each other. I'm not even sure if the males are aggressive even towards the females when it comes to territory in ffxiv. I also wouldn't be surprised to see a derpy or socially awkward male viera in ffxiv, just like there are some derpy xaela.

[Gwenorai]

Actually, male viera do trade as well, but only with other viera. Since that one male viera protected the Vii female, perhaps they aren't that bad. Xaela are pretty bad - fighting each other and war is pretty much engraved in their culture. Though I know male viera brave the wilderness and are fine hunters, they don't necessarily have any battle royales with other viera, only territorial spats. It does seem like FFXIV viera and FFXII viera are a bit different from each other. I wouldn't be surprised to see a derpy or socially awkward male viera, just like there are some derpy Xaela.

Where does it say they trade with one another? I thought they were pretty strict in regards that they don't do that. And everything is about survival with them - the strongest survives and goes on to breed. Males shun contact with other males unless they're a master with their apprentices.

'Without a supportive community, the males must constantly struggle to survive. Food, clothing, weapons, medicines─all must be procured or crafted by the individual and without the aid of another. The male lives alone and dies alone. This has gone unchanged for countless generations. I spent many a moon in the Desert Sapphire, and while I saw all manner of wondrous creatures, not once did I lay mine eyes upon a male Viera, nor did I hear of one living in the city. They simply do not exist to us.

These are FF14 Viera, not FF12 btw. The wiki seems to say they allow for trade, but all other sources say otherwise. They stay away from the female settlements, period. Unless they're going to breed and pick up the jacks.

[Senn]

Where does it say they trade with one another? I thought they were pretty strict in regards that they don't do that. And everything is about survival with them - the strongest survives and goes on to breed. Males shun contact with other males unless they're a master with their apprentices.

"They live in separate settlements and only communicate with the females when needing to mate, trade or collect the male adolescences."
https://finalfantasy.fandom.com/wiki...-MaleViera_0-0

I was looking at the wiki (I actually thought the wiki was talking about ffxii for a second). It could be wrong, but I wouldn't be surprised if they decided to take the opportunity to trade a little while collecting the adolescent males. Out of the settlements and into the wilderness, I imagine there would be absolutely no trading.

[Gwenorai]

"They live in separate settlements and only communicate with the females when needing to mate, trade or collect the male adolescences."
https://finalfantasy.fandom.com/wiki...-MaleViera_0-0

I was looking at the wiki (I actually thought the wiki was talking about ffxii for a second). It could be wrong, but I wouldn't be surprised if they decided to take the opportunity to trade a little while collecting the adolescent males.

I wouldn't be surprised if that's wrong going off the information that we've been given. If the women are looking for the strongest of males then they're probably going to want one that can survive purely by themselves without their aid. The women also have their community where they trade with one another and live pretty comfortably. So, in most scenarios whatever would be traded would specifically tend to benefit the male.

I could see them 'gifting' however, but not taking. A gift seems a lot more likely to be accepted when you're coming into the village to breed.

And of course, males seem to be very normadic, so they don't live in settlements if we go by how they live alone and die alone. They just camp around the woods. Having spats here and there for the best hunting grounds. Do they kill each other like Xaela? No, need. Their numbers are dangerously low. Male Viera only kill other male viera in regards to the strict training. That seems much worse to me. Their younglings die because of how strict and harsh their training is.

[Senn]

...

Yeah, it could be possible they get gifted things when they go to a settlement. It doesn't seem like male viera relationships are that bad with the females, seeing that there is a viera who spoke of her father, right? -and of course, that one male who protected the female vii.

What I'm getting at is that both xaela and male viera are pretty brutal. Despite this, there could possibly still be a derpy male viera, just like some xaela are derpy.

[Tlamila]

It doesn't seem like male viera relationships are that bad with the females

Well, to start with they're matriarchal, so males treating females badly would make no sense.
Second, it says that even though they live far away their souls are still close, which sounds like love to me.
“When I was younger and far more the fool than I am now, I asked a Viera if she did not find her tribe’s ways awkward. Was it not within the natural order for males and females of a species to coexist? The woman answered me thus: ‘The value of coexistence will not be found ‘neath a loincloth. Long has our kind endured understanding that the distance 'twixt two bodies does not dictate the distance 'twixt two souls.’”

[Gwenorai]

Yeah, it could be possible they get gifted things when they go to a settlement. It doesn't seem like male viera relationships are that bad with the females, seeing that there is a viera who spoke of her father, right? -and of course, that one male who protected the female vii.

What I'm getting at is that both xaela and male viera are pretty brutal. Despite this, there could possibly still be a derpy male viera, just like some xaela are derpy.

Yes, it's why I don't actually think they're aggressive to their females. But only outsiders really. I think the females think they're aggressive compared to them. After all when that one Viera was questioned on if it was weird that they live the way they do.

'The woman answered me thus: ‘The value of coexistence will not be found ‘neath a loincloth. Long has our kind endured understanding that the distance 'twixt two bodies does not dictate the distance 'twixt two souls.’”

That Viera are more spiritual than physical. Physical relations are for breeding. What they desire/want is a soul mate. And the distance between two of them matters little as soul mates will always be close because of that bond.

Thank you for the link, I'm always happy to learn more.
Though I still don't see anything about looks in there, which also makes sense because all the speakers say that nobody ever sees males.
I'm looking forward whatever info you will bring from 12 though.

PS. don't kill me for this, but when it says “Yet how they stalk the jungle in those stilettos, perhaps we will never know.” it got me wondering if males wear those too. :P

Nah, there is no actual physical appearance other than the imagery that is painted. They could indeed be small, but with how they live you'd also assume they'd be slim, muscular and with low/zero body fat. Hah, if they have stilettos that would be interesting.

As for ff12, I hope so as well. I really hope that information is indeed in there and I'm not just parroting some imaginary information from faulty memory. I can't even double-check because no one has done a video on it! Or if they have it's really hidden due to the fact they would need to be on Fran and talking to every other Viera female.

[Tlamila]

Here is the rest of the lore dump jhere. As you can see, the life of a Viera male is pretty intense.

Thank you for the link, I'm always happy to learn more.
Though I still don't see anything about looks in there, which also makes sense because all the speakers say that nobody ever sees males.
I'm looking forward whatever info you will bring from 12 though.

PS. don't kill me for this, but when it says “Yet how they stalk the jungle in those stilettos, perhaps we will never know.” it got me wondering if males wear those too. :P

[Senn]

Thank you for the link, I'm always happy to learn more.
Though I still don't see anything about looks in there, which also makes sense because all the speakers say that nobody ever sees males.
I'm looking forward whatever info you will bring from 12 though.

I would like to play through ffxii zodiac age but can't. So yeah, waiting on Gwen. No pressure though lol

If you're interested, I can tell you what Naoki Yoshida said when talking about male viera and their appearance:
"With FF12, there are only female Viera appearing in the game. Due to that, we have no design references for the male versions. If we did create a male design for the Viera, he would be quite elegant, handsome, and slim. He would look more like the Elezen race, but with bunny ears."
https://www.usgamer.net/articles/fin...r-trust-system

Also this:
"We knew we only had Female Viera for reference, so we had no idea what to do for the Male variant. We would have to use our own imagination for that. There was fear about how we would approach that. Perhaps an elezen body with a miqo’te face and bunny ears. "
https://boundingintocomics.com/2019/...ia-and-sexism/

Well, to start with they're matriarchal, so males treating females badly would make no sense.
Second, it says that even though they live far away their souls are still close, which sounds like love to me.
“When I was younger and far more the fool than I am now, I asked a Viera if she did not find her tribe’s ways awkward. Was it not within the natural order for males and females of a species to coexist? The woman answered me thus: ‘The value of coexistence will not be found ‘neath a loincloth. Long has our kind endured understanding that the distance 'twixt two bodies does not dictate the distance 'twixt two souls.’”

I agree. When I read this, I thought that it was spoken with fondness.