Square Enix, please think about both Casual AND Hardcore crafters..

[Zarabeth]

If you’ve played since ARR like you claim, you would know that for sure. Back then, there was very little that was handed out to you on a silver platter, and you had to work hard back then.

First, I bought FFXIV when it first came out back in 2010. My computer at the time could not handle the game so I didn't get to do more than create a character at that time. I came back during the ARR beta. Phase 3, I think and was delighted that I could finally play the game. I believe that was 2013. So, please don't pretend someone is lying when you have no proof of such. Seriously, you can't join the forums unless you play and my join date here was back in 2013. That should give a hint as to how long I've played.

I came here straight from FFXI. Compared to that, no, the crafting here was never hard. Neither was the game. Just because someone has a different opinion than you do is no reason to be snide.

[Nandrolone]

First, I bought FFXIV when it first came out back in 2010. My computer at the time could not handle the game so I didn't get to do more than create a character at that time. I came back during the ARR beta. Phase 3, I think and was delighted that I could finally play the game. I believe that was 2013. So, please don't pretend someone is lying when you have no proof of such. Seriously, you can't join the forums unless you play and my join date here was back in 2013. That should give a hint as to how long I've played.

I came here straight from FFXI. Compared to that, no, the crafting here was never hard. Neither was the game. Just because someone has a different opinion than you do is no reason to be snide.

Rhetorical question, sorry, I wasn’t trying to be rude. I definitely believe you have played for a long time. It’s just, since you have, I’m shocked you would say it was easy, when it most certainly was not. (You didn’t literally say its “easy”, but saying it was “never hard” is quite a stretch.)

How things are now? That’s the true definition of “was never hard.” But let’s face it. Only sort of “hardcore” content crafters will get is 5.2+ Ishgard content. That’s all we are gonna get. As of this current mmo generation, FFXIV is on top. As for next generation, hopefully whatever is on top during that time isn’t anything directed by Yoshida, as he will just follow the same casual formula. Hopefully a brand new refreshing mmo game will come out next generation that has adequate amounts of hardcore content, and has no obvious bias towards casual players.

If it indeed is a brand new Final Fantasy mmo that rules next generation of MMOs, (Likely Final Fantasy 16 or 17, probably 17) hopefully it is NOT DIRECTED BY YOSHIDA. Because if it is, we all know how casual the game will end up being. Besides, one person shouldn’t dictate every company’s MMO strategy. It should be a different person every time. I truly believe if the next FF mmo is directed by someone other than Yoshida, it’ll actually be a nice mmo for casual and hardcore people.

[Maeka]

Rhetorical question, sorry, I wasn’t trying to be rude. I definitely believe you have played for a long time. It’s just, since you have, I’m shocked you would say it was easy, when it most certainly was not. (You didn’t literally say its “easy”, but saying it was “never hard” is quite a stretch.)

How things are now? That’s the true definition of “was never hard.”

Compared to FFXI crafting, Pre-5.1 FFXIV was easy.

I don't recall you risking your life trying to sneak by mobs that would utterly destroy you for a 0.1% chance at getting an adaman ore from Ifrit's Cauldron, for example anywhere in XIV. Having to take lots of Sneak Oils and Prism Powders, and of course you had to cancel Invisible to mine ore, but yet there were sight-aggressive bombs everywhere (which is why you couldn't cast sneak because they would aggro casting unless you were a ninja).

The only annoying part was how you had to look up rotations and junk and it took a lot of repetition and ridiculous amounts of time to keep up. It was never actually hard. Timed nodes, sure, but you could just pop sneak and you were never in any danger. Scrip grinding, meh.

In FFXI, it was actually physically dangerous to get the materials you needed and so they were insanely expensive on the AH. You had to know how to play the market to get anywhere in that game whatsoever.

Not that I'm saying it was a better system, don't get me wrong. FFXI was boring as balls in many ways. Nice world, nice atmosphere, nice storyline...

Most of the gameplay systems were boring as sin though.

EDIT: And BTW, I played since ARR. Maybe not ARR Launch, but I got a character up into the mid-40s before taking a hiatus, and this was well before Heavensward launch.

[Nandrolone]

Compared to FFXI crafting, Pre-5.1 FFXIV was easy.

I don't recall you risking your life trying to sneak by mobs that would utterly destroy you for a 0.1% chance at getting an adaman ore from Ifrit's Cauldron, for example anywhere in XIV. Having to take lots of Sneak Oils and Prism Powders, and of course you had to cancel Invisible to mine ore, but yet there were sight-aggressive bombs everywhere (which is why you couldn't cast sneak because they would aggro casting unless you were a ninja).

The only annoying part was how you had to look up rotations and junk and it took a lot of repetition and ridiculous amounts of time to keep up. It was never actually hard. Timed nodes, sure, but you could just pop sneak and you were never in any danger. Scrip grinding, meh.

In FFXI, it was actually physically dangerous to get the materials you needed and so they were insanely expensive on the AH. You had to know how to play the market to get anywhere in that game whatsoever.

Not that I'm saying it was a better system, don't get me wrong. FFXI was boring as balls in many ways. Nice world, nice atmosphere, nice storyline...

Most of the gameplay systems were boring as sin though.

WOW. Was FFXI seriously that intense? Holy crap, that sounds like heaven for me, lol!!!

[Maeka]

WOW. Was FFXI seriously that intense? Holy crap, that sounds like heaven for me, lol!!!

It was ..... very slow and boring.

You had to walk miles to get anywhere, and the only kind of fast travel you had for the longest period of time, was you could take a chocobo from a town. Once you got off said chocobo, it was on foot the whole way. No teleports, no return spell, unless you were a black mage or you were high enough to sub black mage, or you spent valuable conquest points on warp scrolls (which you could only hold one of at any given time). Later on they added more ways to get around, but way back when?

It was ridiculous.

To GET to the place I mentioned? You started out in a town called Kazham. You went into the Jungle, and the map... the map was barely useful at all because of how it was drawn, hopefully you knew exactly how to get to the correct entrance to Ifrit's Cauldron (a volcano). Once there, you had to use Sneak Oils/Invisible Powders which were not cheap to avoid getting attacked by enemies. At max level, they rated Very Tough to Incredibly Tough and you had exactly 0% chance of defeating one solo unless you were one of a couple jobs that could do it (and even then it'd probably take you 10 minutes+ to do).

Anyhow, the place was a maze, hopefully you know where you're going, and at random spots, there's these fire geysers that shoot fire and block your path but for 30 seconds every 5 minutes or so, the fire dies down and you can pass... or you can use an ice cluster on it, but to do so you had to drop the invisible status and there were always bombs near them. Well, once you do all that and get to the tunnels where Mining Points actually come out? Well, you can't SEE them just by looking at them, you had to keep mashing the Tab key to find and target one. Go up to it, trade a pickaxe to it.

40% of the time? "You mined nothing."
Another 40% of the time? "Your pickaxe breaks."
15% of the time? "You mined a ...." (pebble, copper ore, tin ore, iron ore, etc cheap crap you can find anywhere)
5% of the time, you MIGHT get something halfway valuable like Darksteel, Silver, etc.
0.1% of the time you MIGHT get an Adaman Ore.

You'd get 3-4 whacks out of 1 node then it disappears and..... who the heck knows where another spawned. So you gotta go up and down the mazy corridors looking for another.

Oh, and your item inventory was only 80 slots, INCLUDING your 16 slot inventory window (which took up space in your regular inventory too), and Ore did *NOT* stack.

EDIT: And if you did manage to get 4 Adaman Ores, you could make an Adaman Ingot! Yaaaay! But... you always had 10% chance of failing any synthesis, regardless of your level vs its level to start with. Yes, if you were a maxed out Blacksmith making a Bronze Ingot, 10% of the time you'd blow it and lose the materials. So... yeah. It took you hours and hours to get 4 Ores to make that Adaman Ingot. Wanna roll the dice to see if you fail the synth and lose 3-4 ore that took you 50 hours to get? And then, if you did make the ingot, you probably wanted to use it to make something else, right? There are a few weapons that can be made from it. So, you go to make THAT and it's ANOTHER 10% chance to fail and lose the materials. Gee, wouldn't that just suck if you blew THAT attempt only to see "Adaman Ingot was lost" come up in the chat window.

[Zarabeth]

WOW. Was FFXI seriously that intense? Holy crap, that sounds like heaven for me, lol!!!

Yes, it really was. If you would like to experience it, the way it was before it got too easy, there are private servers such as Eden where you can play the 75 cap FFXI. Trust me, if you tried it for any length of time, you would agree that this game is easy.

[Callinon]

As for next generation, hopefully whatever is on top during that time isn’t anything directed by Yoshida, as he will just follow the same casual formula.

By which you mean the formula that has FFXIV at a high degree of success and sustainability? Yeah that WOULD be a shame wouldn't it? Maybe the next FF MMO could be built to cater to hardcore players. Actually I think we had a game like that a while back... believe it was called Wildstar? How's that doing these days?

[Nandrolone]

By which you mean the formula that has FFXIV at a high degree of success and sustainability? Yeah that WOULD be a shame wouldn't it? Maybe the next FF MMO could be built to cater to hardcore players. Actually I think we had a game like that a while back... believe it was called Wildstar? How's that doing these days?

That’s not what I said in my post. I said a new director should rise up with the new Final Fantasy 17 MMO, rather than it being Yoshida every single time. I also said that whoever directs the next MMO, should not be bias towards casual players like Yoshida was, and favor both players. It’s overall more healthier long term for an mmo, rather than paying attention to just one audience.

I doubt Yoshida will direct the next MMO, it’ll likely be someone else. But if he is, hopefully he’s a bit more passionate for all types of his players.

[Callinon]

That’s not what I said in my post. I said a new director should rise up with the new Final Fantasy 17 MMO, rather than it being Yoshida every single time. I also said that whoever directs the next MMO, should not be bias towards casual players like Yoshida was, and favor both players. It’s overall more healthier long term for an mmo, rather than paying attention to just one audience.

I doubt Yoshida will direct the next MMO, it’ll likely be someone else. But if he is, hopefully he’s a bit more passionate for all types of his players.

He's directed one FF MMO. Just one. This one. So I'm not sure where you're getting Yoshida burnout from.

And "bias toward casual players" feels like you fundamentally misunderstand how MMOs make money. My crack about Wildstar earlier was meant to allude to this but it might have been too subtle. Let me try a more sledgehammery approach:

Wildstar was built from the ground up to cater to hardcore players. Wildstar failed hard within like a year. It spent some time as a f2p game, and I believe it's shut down now.

MMOs have to lean on casual players because
A: There are way WAY more of them
B: They're the ones that spend the money

Hardcore players are great to have around and you do definitely want stuff for them to do because they add life and goals to the game world. But they can't sustain a product on their own. There just aren't enough of them.

[Nandrolone]

He's directed one FF MMO. Just one. This one. So I'm not sure where you're getting Yoshida burnout from.

And "bias toward casual players" feels like you fundamentally misunderstand how MMOs make money. My crack about Wildstar earlier was meant to allude to this but it might have been too subtle. Let me try a more sledgehammery approach:

Wildstar was built from the ground up to cater to hardcore players. Wildstar failed hard within like a year. It spent some time as a f2p game, and I believe it's shut down now.

MMOs have to lean on casual players because
A: There are way WAY more of them
B: They're the ones that spend the money

Hardcore players are great to have around and you do definitely want stuff for them to do because they add life and goals to the game world. But they can't sustain a product on their own. There just aren't enough of them.

Yeah, that’s fair to assume. I just wish more mmos had more hardcore content, it really is upsetting...

seems like whatever 5.2 brings will make or break the "hardcore" crafters and see them exit the game forever. to which i say "byeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee"!

What did hardcore crafters ever do to hurt you to make you say stuff like that? That’s a bit unnecessary to say.